I have been using Carlson Survey/SurvCAD since the late 90's. I was using the 2004 version. Recently, I downloaded the 2012 demo version for work. My demo runs out on Monday. Here, they use Civil 3D. I am not sure how anxious I am about having to learn a new program. My first question is what could I do to justify staying with Carlson (other than cost, I tried and they don't care)? and 2. What can I expect in Civil 3D? Will I lose production on boundary survey calcs, generating stakeout points, etc? Any help would be appreciated.
I could use a Monroe Hand crank calculator and a book of trig tables and be more productive than I am in Civil 3D for survey calculations. I hate that stuff with a passion. I don't have a choice and have to use it. You can tell how much I like it by this comment. Why does Autodesk demand we use this overblown blotted stuff when all we need is something simple. They has it in Survey Complete but mudered it and cramed Civil effin 3D down our gullets and laughed all the way to the bank. I hope they gag on the profit
There have been several threads on the Civil 3d discussion group recently from surveyors who are suffering through the transition. Here's the most recent one.
Essentially it seems to come down to two issues:
- Civil 3d comes out-of-the-box without very much in the way of pre-configured styles and settings, so you'll have to spend time and effort getting it to work the way that you do. Alternatively you can get pre-built templates from various sources but then you're going to have to change the way that you do some things.
- One of the areas where Autodesk has fallen down with Civil 3d is in providing some of the tools and commands specific to the needs of surveyors. For example, checking the offset of a point relative to a property line is not as simple as it should be.
If you go the Civil 3D route, which I would highly discourage, be prepared for:
1. Training - thinking you don't need it is a HUGE mistake.
2. Frustration.
3. Many, many hours of non-productivity.
4. More frustration.
5. $, $, and more $. They will suck you dry.
Civil 3D is so conceptually different than anything else that it cannot be imagined. I only have 27 years of CAD experience, so factor that into my comments...
I feel your pain! You are in for a huge nightmare, with little promise of hope.
Sorry to be so negative.:'(
Once again, I am being forced into Civil 3D by mananagement. I am not a draftsman or will I ever be. I do occasional plan revisions but my main responsibilities are project management. But they do have me calc up boundary surveys as needed. I am looking for a way to talk my boss into letting me keep Carlson.
thank you for the memory - oh survey complete, you were my first CAD
Sounds like a change in management is in order.
jud
> I am looking for a way to talk my boss into letting me keep Carlson.
How about just printing this thread and showing him what experienced users are saying?
Anyone know if Carlson 2013 is friendly with c3d 2013 or newer? I'm the only surveyor in the company I work for running c3d 2012 cause it makes everything run smoother in my office with the engineers even though I get extremely pissed at times with c3d. The other surveyors are dreading making the swap and we don't have enough seats. We have been considering all the surveyors going to Carlson because it's a 1/3 of what c3d costs but we are unsure if they will jive with one another.
> Anyone know if Carlson 2013 is friendly with c3d 2013 or newer?
When released, Carlson 2013 will operate on top of the AutoCAD 2013 family of products (including C3D). Lots of other goodies are planned as described on the Carlson 2013 Improvements List.
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Ladd Nelson
We are going to save money, no matter how much it costs!
What it comes down to is productivity. Boss, what you want me to do costs more and makes me unproductive. Or we can do this lower cost option which will allow me to be actually productive. If you have an Architect in an office of Engineers do you make him use an Engineer's scale because that is what the Engineers use? Let the Engineers use Engineering tools and let the Land Surveyors use Land Surveyor tools.
You might want to look at TOPCON's Survey Master (±$1300) or
Survey Master Lite (±$600). I also use Carlson (2008), but will check out the TOPCON'S product next. I've seen the Demo and it appears pretty straightforward with a small learning curve.
SurveyMaster Software:
SurveyMaster provides the complete survey/CAD desktop solution. Whether it's a simple mortgage inspection with a one-page print out of the boundary and the property improvements, or a complicated multi-surface construction job site with roads, utilities, machine control, and buildings, SurveyMaster gives you everything you need to complete a project. From field-to-finish, control the critical data flow from data collection, raw file analysis, engineering design, to final print efficiently with SurveyMaster.
SurveyMaster Lite Software:
SurveyMaster Lite contains land survey specific functionality. COGO, drafting tools, survey data editors and adjustments, deed entry, legal description writer, and contouring are all provided. Also provided is the Quick Volume routine which is essential for surveyors monitoring volume totals for construction sites or stockpiles. SurveyMaster Lite provides all the tools required to produce a final plat whether a simple mortgage inspection survey or a complicated ALTA survey.
It's ALL about productivity. Inceased productivity = increased profits. Going onto a new platform with no formal training = lost productivity = lost profits.
IF money is NO ISSUE, then they have two real choices: (1) Pay to send you to a REAL training session on the new software (VAR classes do not count.) {See theswamp.org for GOOD potential training classes by Mike Farrel.)or (2) spend the additional money to get the Carlson Survey pack that loads on top of AutoCad Civil 3D.(That costs a boatload of money-but "money is no object".)
You will lose some productivity while you are in the classes and while you configure the software to your needs, but you will make that up later. If they decide to just let you sit there and struggle to get up to speed, they will lose a TON of profits, but that's what 95% of the companies do, so they must be used to it.
When Autodesk have updated uncivil3 enough times, they will
probably drop it like Softdesk and Carlson.