Where I presently work, there are a couple clients who apparently scale at least some of their CAD drawings. Half size seems to be popular, i.e. 1 unit = 0.5 units.
When I was taught on Autocad, it was drilled into my feeble brain that drawings themselves are NEVER, EVER scaled, END OF STORY. If there is scaling to be done, the printing would be the place to do it.
So, I am wondering if anybody here scales their drawings as I described above, and if so, why?
I put a scale into Carlson so the barscale comes out right.
😉
John, post: 366579, member: 791 wrote: Where I presently work, there are a couple clients who apparently scale at least some of their CAD drawings. Half size seems to be popular, i.e. 1 unit = 0.5 units.
When I was taught on Autocad, it was drilled into my feeble brain that drawings themselves are NEVER, EVER scaled, END OF STORY. If there is scaling to be done, the printing would be the place to do it.
So, I am wondering if anybody here scales their drawings as I described above, and if so, why?
Nope, never in model space. You are correct sir.
model space 1:1 in meters, scaling in paperspace.
[sarcasm]I always scale all of my drawings by a factor of 12; that they are easy for architects to use....[/sarcasm]
One should set the standard to something like 1" = 173'. That ought to drive them crazy.
Hardly anyone actually throws a scale on a final plat anymore to figure something out because all quality, professional surveyors provide every number needed.
I had received a drawing from an AE firm, and the Master Units were "inches" (architectural). I had to scale it by 0.083333. When I sent it back to them with survey data included, their cad tech called and could understand the difference in size. I explained my Master Units were feet, and their original drawing's MU were inches.
He thought for a second and then told me my drawing was going to have to be a lot closer that just a foot...:pinch:
paden cash, post: 366619, member: 20 wrote: He thought for a second and then told me my drawing was going to have to be a lot closer that just a foot...:pinch:
COL (chuckle Out Loud)
John, post: 366579, member: 791 wrote: Where I presently work, there are a couple clients who apparently scale at least some of their CAD drawings. Half size seems to be popular, i.e. 1 unit = 0.5 units.
When I was taught on Autocad, it was drilled into my feeble brain that drawings themselves are NEVER, EVER scaled, END OF STORY. If there is scaling to be done, the printing would be the place to do it.
So, I am wondering if anybody here scales their drawings as I described above, and if so, why?
That practice is indicative of a total misunderstanding of the very basic precept of the CAD system. I would not want to be involved in any way, shpe or form with an operation donig what you described.
Trust me, I am not the one scaling drawings. We sometimes (but not often enough) get drawings from clients that I enter into our system and process. (Steel company. The drawings are given to me, I do "my thing" [draw them, put stuff on the layers we use, import into the program that converts the results to machine language[)
It was drilled into my head well enough to never scale a drawing, it never occurs to me to check the incoming drawings.... then one comes in that has been scaled down, I process, it gets to the burning guys and they (hopefully) discover the drawing is the wrong scale. Then I go ballistic cussing like a sailor. Which is why the powers that be don't trust me talking to very many clients.... I would be responsible for driving them away for calling them total idiots for doing such stupid things.....
And the sales people don't understand what I do or how I do it. At all. So they are incapable of relaying any sort of coherent message like "do not scale drawings".
Apparently, I have all sorts of magical powers that nobody will tell me how to use, but I should be able to deliver the world in under 2 minutes... I have been told by more than one sales person how very easy my job is and how I should be able to do such and such in a couple minutes when I haven't a clue how to get it done.
Holy Cow, post: 366610, member: 50 wrote: ....Hardly anyone actually throws a scale on a final plat anymore to figure something out because all quality, professional surveyors provide every number needed.
Electrical Engineers that deal with aerial lines are the world's worst when it comes to "scaling". They've been known to scale aerial spans (distance between poles) off of Google Earth. 216' may very well be 212' or 220'. To most of them it really doesn't matter. And when staking from their aerial plans (not to scale) I am compelled to stake to their span lengths (I have no other distances). When I get to a line junction pole or an existing anchor pole, if I can jump the distance it's off, I'm good.
As long as everything falls within the easement I've written, nobody worries about a thing!
It has been quite a while, but Paper Space and Model Space can help a lot, if used correctly.
first, ALWAYS use a Bar Scale, Always. Your drawing can then be printed at any size on any sheet and it is still usable.
*** the Bar Scale must be created in Model Space.
I was on a sewer pond project once (in 1995 more or less), we laid out the perimeter dikes, inlets and outlets, etc. As we were leaving the Project Engineer (who was also the Design Engineer) asked if we could slap in a couple stakes for an interior cross berm... it was not dimensioned, but illustrated. It got scaled in from the bar scale. No high precision was needed, no problem (we all thought).
The problem was that the bar scale was created in Paper Space, then the drafter manipulated the Model Space snapshot ... and the scale got changed about 20%. So the cutoff dike got constructed about 50 feet off. The Volume of the ponds were not as intended. The Engineer scrambled, re calculated the absorption or evaporation or whatever... conferred with the Owner etc. No dirt needed to be moved, but the potential of large costs freaked everyone out.
New Rule!!! Bar Scales in Model Space!
I probably shouldn't even bring up when drawings are scaled in International Feet, right? :pinch:
It's the first thing you learn with Cad draw 1:1
Also if you want to bring a drawing into your own that has different units, set your drawing units in the units control and set the incoming drawing as it's intended units that way the drawing will scale automatically to your preferred units. Easy.
Totalsurv, post: 366675, member: 8202 wrote: It's the first thing you learn with Cad draw 1:1
Also if you want to bring a drawing into your own that has different units, set your drawing units in the units control and set the incoming drawing as it's intended units that way the drawing will scale automatically to your preferred units. Easy.
"Easy."
It seems that way to me but judging by how often I get screwed up drawings from others it is exceedingly complex...
Peter Ehlert, post: 366642, member: 60 wrote: It has been quite a while, but Paper Space and Model Space can help a lot, if used correctly.
first, ALWAYS use a Bar Scale, Always. Your drawing can then be printed at any size on any sheet and it is still usable.
*** the Bar Scale must be created in Model Space.I was on a sewer pond project once (in 1995 more or less), we laid out the perimeter dikes, inlets and outlets, etc. As we were leaving the Project Engineer (who was also the Design Engineer) asked if we could slap in a couple stakes for an interior cross berm... it was not dimensioned, but illustrated. It got scaled in from the bar scale. No high precision was needed, no problem (we all thought).
The problem was that the bar scale was created in Paper Space, then the drafter manipulated the Model Space snapshot ... and the scale got changed about 20%. So the cutoff dike got constructed about 50 feet off. The Volume of the ponds were not as intended. The Engineer scrambled, re calculated the absorption or evaporation or whatever... conferred with the Owner etc. No dirt needed to be moved, but the potential of large costs freaked everyone out.
New Rule!!! Bar Scales in Model Space!
This is why I never have and never will use Paper Space... I've never a met a project I couldn't handle in Model Space.
Paper Space is great, put North Arrow and Bar Scale in Model, then switch to Paper for sheet border, legend, title block etc. Rotate your Model window to suit orientation. no duplication. But I have not created a production drawing for a few years so maybe you have newer/better tools.
Yes, you are correct. No one (should) scales the "electronic model". Even before paper/model space, you learned how to scale the print, but leave your model coordinates "pure".
Some also move the drawing around. Not a good plan either.
BUT in surveying you must "scale" your plats. Otherwise all the blocks are going to look really tiny, unusable and silly. In steel drawings an d circuit work., it all should be done at 1:1 (1 unit= 1 unit, whatever your units may be.)
International feet? Not this side of the pond. Use them if you want to, but I guarantee that you will end up in court.
The main message I've gotten from this thread is that there are a lot of people out there that have NO concept of the idea of "scale". If you haven't has a basic drafting course, step AWAY from the computer. AND if you've had a basic course and they taught you to never scale a drawing, go back to them and tell them you want your money back. You've been played.
Build your model ( draw ) at 1:1 in model space
Plot from paper space at whatever scale (or scales) suit your paper
Blocks and text set to plot at a fixed size (eg 2.5mm) regardless of scale
Works for me (and thousands of others)