Resection in SurvCE 6.17 problem

I have no idea how to address your issues but am wondering why you work in negative coordinates.

Is there a reason for this?

Ditto with the negative coordinates; Why? Just to be clear are you saying you work in quadrant #3 where the origin point is to the northeast of your location?

I don't use Carlson, but is it possible that not working in Quadrant #3 could be an issue. It would be for me just thinking about the math.

In my country we have such a projection. It goes back to 19. century and before a computer age they were positive.

People are asking about this negative coordinates business because it is very unusual, and we are all wondering if it has something to do with the effects you are observing re: residual reporting. The use of a computer to calculate the coordinates shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I'm wondering how many control points you are using for your resections. I'm not specifically familiar with SurvCE, but when I used Survey Pro it would not report residuals if resecting to just two points. You needed three or more to get a residual report.

We have +X going South and +Y going West. The computer age brought CAD programs and our projection is now in Q3 and negative for CAD calculation.

I usually do a resection with a minimum of four points. Sometimes the residual tab remains blank but overall values for horizontal and vertical shows up every time. Also in RW5 are stored all values but for the check and removing bad residuals it remains blank like empty Excel. I can tap to a cell and it shows point ID and coords. All the information are there but sometimes just don't show up and it is very frustrating especially when for example use wrong prism height etc.

I don't understand the point when you are working in +X and +Y in the field and negatives in CAD. Both the field work and CAD files rely on 0,0 orientation. Trying to bring positive coordinates into a drawing based on negative values could have your points potentially falling miles outside of the drawing.

I have recently received support from Carlson regarding SurvCE 6.

Although Windows Mobile is defunct, Carlson are still supporting SurvCE users - according to their website, and according to my recent experience.

Were you talking to a rep in your country, or to the head office in the US?

I would try again to contact them.

I contacted their support in the US for several times, I sent them CRD and RW5 for this case but SurvCE has zero priority now.

I don't know much about surveying software workings but I do know a thing or two about coordinate systems. Using South as Positive x and West as Positive y raises a red flag.

Typically, the y-axis is the North-South axis and the x-axis is the East-West axis. In the old, old days in the US, due South was 0 degrees, due West was 90 degrees and so on. Rotating the system 180 degrees gets us to our current system of due North at 0 degrees and due East at 90 degrees.

In the plane system that you've described, a similar rotation of axes is possible, so that's ok.

The other potential problem is the definitions of x and y. Typically, the y-axis is North-South and the x-axis is East-West with North and East positive.

Possibly, you're in the third quadrant because of a misunderstanding of the coordinate system in the computer system.

As to the zero residuals, I haven't a clue, but I would check the coordinate system definition and see if that eliminates the negative coordinates.

If the negative coordinates or South azimuth were the issue, the blank cells would simply have incorrect values. Blank tells me software or procedure problem. Walk through your procedure, recording each step (and resulting screen appearance) as you do it. Find your blank lines and check for any differences in your notes.

Best of luck..

The issue is blank cells from time to time. Calc with negative coords is without any problem. This is what I stated above. The customer service in the US asked me for CRD and RW5 to track the possible sw problem. They got all they asked for but as I stated there is no priority to sort it out (I asked for several times).

Do you also have Carlson Survey CAD program on your laptop/desktop?

If so, you can run the raw data through the included SurvNet program and it will solve the resection and report residuals.

At least then you will know if it is purely a SurvCE issue or if it also occurs in another program.

You could also download a demo of SurvPC and try that.

Not solving your problem, but those are my thoughts.

The demo version gives you a limited number of command calls and if you are not a Carlson user, you will blow through them quickly. I think that the max is 100 command calls in the trial version.

We have +X going South and +Y going West. The computer age brought CAD programs and our projection is now in Q3 and negative for CAD calculation.

Unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't these vectors result in a "left-handed" coordinate system as opposed to the more tradition right-handed system?

I can't say with certainty if this is at the root of the problem but it very well could be. If you'd care to send your data files and coordinate system information to me lnelsonATcarlsonswDOTcom (or reply to me with the Carlson Tech Support Case number), I'll see if I figure out what is going on.

In case it helps, you do have the ability to set a traditional Cardinal direction to a 0° azimuth:

I hope this information helps.

Any time I have a resection blank screen (which is very rare), I hit back, hit calculate again, and then it's good.

I would not expect any help on SurvCE/SurvPC version 6. I discovered an errata on 6.17 scaling to ground using the Equip->GPS Localization method in that metric systems would have their vertical borked. It was not mentioned in the Release Notes nor was it mentioned in the version 7 release notes. I was told to upgrade to 7 as 6 was no longer supported. I just downgraded to 6.16 and the issue went away. It was not fun figuring out what the issue was so it is always good to document field methodology so you can backtrack and begin self-diagnosis. When it is your dollars on the line, you will care more about finding a solution than anyone else.

After some time, I want to share my latest experience.

I figured out the same way as you noticed – „hit back, hit calculate again, and then it’s good “. Sometimes I had to repeat it even for three times.

I followed your advice and downgraded to 6.16 and it works. Since that I performer many resections and a resection blank screen appeared say once out of ten. Thanks for that.

Once this happens, I have a solution. And definitely there is something wrong on 6.17.

Also, I had a conversation with Ladd and want to thank him for his effort to help me to sort out this problem.

Here is our projection to explain why we use these positive coordinates as negative now. It was set in 1922.

Thanks you all guys for all these feedback.

It's also good to know about different projections uses! We have so many different way to do the same job...

I experimented also some blank screens or even crashes during resection computation on SurvPC 6.17. It's good to know that a downgrade may be a solution... maybe next time I'll compute a resection on the field, I won't need anymore to do some incantations and prayers! Or maybe I'll just succeed in asking the 7.x upgrade to my company...

I'll assume that you're lying west of the prime meridian, east of the international date line and south of the equator.

I'm north of the equator and I have followed old survey notes from the 1920's and 1930's that used Northings and Westings for increasing coordinate calculations. Those surveyors were presumably old GLO surveyors and transitioned into private practice. I figure it's second nature to them and if you're south of the equator southings and westings make perfect sense.

Latitudes increase south, Longitudes increase west. Coordinates should follow.

I will say using Northings Westings in Autocad is a real PITA. Southings and Westings would be a pleasure compared to that.

Looking through those old notes, drawings and calc sheets should be humbling to us modern day button pushers. Me included.