Where have all the Surveyors gone?

They'll come back when/if the shortage causes an increase in demand and pay.

In this area, there is no shortage of surveyors.

There is however, a shortage of party chiefs. We've been trying for months to hire one.

It's time for reality TV to discover the world of land surveying.

Survivor wouldn't ever be the same if they sent a dozen surveyors out to some remote location. They would all make themselves at home immediately.

The Voice needs to discover some of the talented musicians who frequent this board.

Searching for your Roots needs to produce a bevy of ancestors that were surveyors, map makers and the like.

I seem to recall we did have a surveyor win one of the Biggest Loser contests, but being famous for being connected to the term "biggest loser" probably isn't the best.

Perhaps Dancing with the Stars could add a prism pole dancing competition and require the dancers to perform in hiking boots with 40 pound backpacks.

American Ninja contests could require the contestants to transport a $30,000 delicate package through the various challenges.

Think about it. Kids learn to idolize what they can witness. The days of 95 percent of the children observing and helping their parents earn a living are gone. Most of what they witness about adult occupations comes from TV and computer-based sources. Surveyors of any kind are absent.

During my first few weeks in college I learned from a classmate that his major was Horticulural Therapy. I immediately tried to imagine how one might provide therapy to sick, injured and disadvantaged plants. Fortunately, he went on to explain that it was actually geared toward assisting humans in need of therapy through the use of plants. Who knew there was such a thing as a horticultural therapist? Later, I knew a fellow who had taken a similar educational route to be a music therapist, thereby using music and musical instruments to assist in human therapy.

Wow, I'm still young.
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Ok all you guys and gals

This is the perfect thread to generate ideas. How do we reach out to the youth of America?

We all go to career fairs...right?
We all support the Boy Scout Surveying merit badge...right?
We all give a Trig-Star test at our local High School...right?

What else do YOU do to get the word out? What media tools do you use?

This is an ongoing struggle to both, bring in new people to the profession and to educate the public on the value of sour services. I think they go hand in hand.

Joe

Ok all you guys and gals

Try to be one of the most recognized members of your community through a wide variety of means. Let your professional title be a part of who you are. Then when someone points to you they are likely to add somewhat reverently, "you know, he's a land surveyor".

No joke. Be that person that young people might wish to emulate for all the right reasons.

I'm in the same boat. I've posted here and locally on craigslist seeking resumes. In two months I've had 1 resume and that individual didn't have what I'm looking for. I pretty much run a solo shop and the volume of work at times is insane. Trying to find someone of party chief caliber with some drafting experience that possesses the ability to think on their feet. Has as they say in fighter pilot jargon, 'The right stuff'. I've got to find someone and I will, or run the risk of seriously burning out. Years ago before I got my license I was talking to an older surveyor who told me, in his words, 'We are eating our young'. The days of multi-man crews were going the way of the Dodo and technology was eliminating the lower tier positions where a guy could learn from the ground up. He was right. Fortunately for me I'm still fairly young, late forties. Unfortunately for me, it's a major problem when I can't take a vacation or I have to drag myself out of bed with the flu because there's nobody that can figure things out on their own. When I go down during construction season, I take multiple construction crews down with me.

Ok all you guys and gals

"We all go to career fairs...right?"

That got too depressing - the first question the young folks ask is "How much money do you make?" I make a good living, but half of them turn away because its less than the guy in the next both says he makes. The remaining half leave when they find out they might have to "be outdoors all day"! I guess when they are not sitting inside in the classroom they are sitting inside on the couch, and outdoors is something to be avoided. Afte rall, there's sunshine and bugs outdoors...

I have had a terrible time finding employees for the last 10 years. have a great young guy right now, but he is a recent college grad with a Civil Engineering degree. He will move on unless we pay him as much as we are paying PE's with years of experience or shift him into the engineering side of the firm.

I know of a young person in the Sacramento area available as a entry level employee.

Have to start from scratch, ab initio, but pay could be rock bottom-smart Bachelor of Music, Summa Cum Laude. She has a seasonal job packaging products for shipping right now, probably runs until the end of December.

Since the oh eight crash I've pretty much lost all of my private sector contacts.

A solution that I consider viable is in-house training. Develop a smart training program with clearly prepared safe work practices and safe work procedures. With such a program, you can hire smart people to become good instrument person then eventually reach the skills of many party chiefs.

Ok all you guys and gals

All very good ideas. I especially like the Trig Star as my picture ended up on the brochure somehow...
In the end our problem can be summed up in 2 words. Business Model.
Few Surveyors have maintained a business model that allows mentoring. Those that have are ridiculed as dinosaurs. Employees that take time to teach catch crap for wasting time talking. The almighty dollar has become the ONLY goal for many.
While I do not believe Surveying is in its death throes, it is changing in many (not so good) ways. We can pass it on or watch the skills and knowledge fade.
The quote that comes to mind is, 'We have met the enemy, and he is us...'

There are several issues, BUT they essentially all revolve around money 🙂

pay is generally too low with a decade required to get to a decent wage. Time is money, no one wants to wait that long.

The unpredictable future is also about money, who wants to invest years in a career just to be let go?

After weathering downturns since the 1980's, I am currently surveying part time and doing something else part time, I left surveying once before, but came back, not sure after the last downturn I want ALL of my eggs in the surveying basket again.

I think all of these things are affecting recruiting and retention, I remember in the 1980's a ton of good surveyors left the field and never came back. Folks for the most part move on, they can't sit around and wait a few years for the economy to come back thus the profession needs to get all the replacements from the bottom again and that is tough to do with one person crews and for the most part cutthroat pricing, it tends to keep wages down and I can understand why new folks aren't interested.

SHG

Ok all you guys and gals

This should be a simple supply/demand/pay function.

When what we do is so valuable and in such high demand, then we will be paid accordingly, and that will attract young educated people to our profession.

We can't just put on shows, with fancy equipment and interesting brochures, or offer programs and scholarships, etc. There has to be some pay-off, literally, for a college graduate to choose surveying over engineering or something else.

It's hard getting younger people into a profession that you need to put your dues into before receiving a decent wage when they can put less time in to go into job that pays more. I've told my kids that they can be anything they want to be except a surveyor lol. I love what I do but I want a better life for them.

> There are several issues, BUT they essentially all revolve around money 🙂
People who are clever enough to operate today's equipment, and also to understand the when and the what, have better options. Simple as that. If a person is willing to work outside, and is willing to endure erratic employment and an uncertain future there are other, more lucrative, options. Construction, for example. It's all about the Benjamins, baby.

I have definetly put my dues in and am now making decent money as a crew cheif and hopefully soon-to-be RLS. However, I view it as a miracle I made it through those times when I sacrificed so much. I drove many miles and spent many a day for miniscule money and the constant threat of workload going south. The goal of getting my license kept me going and still does.

My helper asked about a career in surveying....I told him my wife is the bread winner, so I will continue on. You are the bread winner for your family. It would be wise not to pursue this career right now...too risky.

How's that for youth outreach?

But seriously, it takes a special person with a lot of perseverance and affinity for beer to stay in the game.

No one will pay a living wage

There is no support for those coming into the profession.

There is no support for those who want to advance.

Companties want push button Chiefs.

Engineers look down on surveyors. I recently put one back in his place as anyone can do land development. It is the legalities that one needs to know.

I have met and heard from many people that claim they can and want to work in the surveying field.

The ones that actually show up and can do surveying are few and apparently not anywhere around this area.

The offering of good money for good help is not a factor that seems to work.

Everyone wants to start out as instrument man and nobody can remember how to set it up form day to day without a refresher course and handle it like an anchor.

It is very hard for a 2 horse company to add a college grad to the crew without offering a free ride thru college and set them up for life afterwards.

0.02

"Follow the money"