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What do you make of this?

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(@jim-in-az)
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What do you make of this statement in a contract?

"Client should be aware of the fact that surveying is an inexact science and is subject to a certain degree of inaccuracy and opinion."

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 6:13 am
(@scott-ellis)
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in·ex·act adjective ?i-nig-?zakt

: not completely correct or precise : not exact

If someone I hired a job to do, told me that could do it, but it might not be completely correct, I would hire someone else.

I would say, survey will be done to minimal state standards.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 6:21 am
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11088
 

> What do you make of this statement in a contract?

It's bs. What would be more appropriate would be to specify a degree of accuracy for the survey that could be relied upon.

Someone said once, "You cannot certify yourself out of liability."

That's kind of what that sentence smells like..

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 6:22 am
(@plumb-bill)
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While true is unnecessary and does not help to limit liability.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 6:45 am
(@back-chain)
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Sounds like, 'once bitten, twice shy'.

I write all my own proposals and find stuff like that getting typed (by me) when there is an aspect of the RFP that I've been dogged by before (spec or special condition/ whatever)

When it's fast-paced to get it out and get the job going/ done, I miss those 'burs' sometimes; usually find them in a reread, later.

If this is a contract someone is asking you to sign (i.e. you are the client) and they are the firm you want to do the work, I'd specifically ask them about it. If you can see what the cause of the clause is, maybe you can work through it/ understand and adjust.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 7:18 am
(@wayne-g)
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> "Client should be aware of the fact that surveying is an inexact science and is subject to a certain degree of inaccuracy and opinion."

Jim, I do recall one of my professors back in my old college days stressing the fact that surveyors have "quasi judicial" authority, and no measurement is exact. Plus that we have no judicial authority, just opinions based on our findings. Thus the judicial authority is deferred to a higher power, that may or may not accept our opinion.

It took me 20 yrs for it to sink in, and it is more true that many of us want to believe. Worse yet, getting our clients to acknowledge it. Double worse yet, getting them to pay for the knowledge we hold sacred.

Have a good day....;-)

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 7:21 am
(@target-locked)
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Was that statement taken from last night's weather forecast?

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 7:29 am
(@jo-teague)
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It is true, but what fool would use it in a scope, contract or plat? What was the context, Jim?

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 8:38 am
(@jim-in-az)
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It's in an out-of-town competitor's proposal for an ALTA Survey. Their fee was 26% of ours.

It will be most interesting if it appears on their map...

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 8:59 am
(@spledeus)
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Wording

I have been tracking down the local subsidence (varies from about -0.1' per century to -1.4' per century based on CORS velocities and another source).

It will be a while before anyone gets a handle on the exact subsidence rates in the area. There are some hot spots dropping faster than others. I do not believe the subsidence will be linear between CORS and I would not want to assume anything.

Now I want to provide a benchmark to an engineer and I want to describe that the natural geological changes in the surface of the earth will not allow me to certify that the benchmark will be where I set it in a certain number of years, so please come back for the next project and I will measure it again...

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 9:26 am
(@john-harmon)
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Wording

First day in college survey 101 the instructor said: All measurements contain ERROR, no measurement is EXACT.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 11:35 am
(@lmbrls)
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"Client should be aware of the fact that surveying is an inexact science and is subject to a certain degree of inaccuracy and opinion."
[sarcasm]In fact, we at We Know What we Are worth Surveying may vary as much as 74% from our fellow surveyors, as we can only afford to spend 1/4 the time that other surveyors would spend on this project.Of course that includes our drive time.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 12:56 pm
(@gerry-pena)
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Wording

"Client should be aware of the fact that surveying is an inexact science and is subject to a certain degree of inaccuracy and opinion."

For boundary survey, I would agree with this clause. The reason being, I was not involved in the original survey. Some original surveys were made 50-100 years ago is not an exaggeration. If a client was asking me to locate her lot corners & I have to use reference points from adjoining lots then I am placing my survey results based on someone else's survey right? What if the survey 100 years ago was erroneous?

Usually for boundary surveys, I would use reference corners from maybe 1-2 adjoining lots. If they agree to within tolerance of their computed positions then I use them to layout my client's corners.

But if you think about it, what if these 2 lots were wrongly surveyed? The 2 lots's relative positions to each other would be correct but what about their relative positions to say another 5-6 adjoining lots? So up to where do we survey to find suitable reference points? 10 lots? 20 lots? 30 lots?

I have seen boundary surveys connecting with adjoining lots as reference points and somewhere down the road another surveyor would be using reference points from another group of lots and there would be a gap or overlap somewhere in the middle. All their reference points would be within tolerance but because some surveyor relied on an erroneous previous survey he would take the blame for the some dead surveyor's work.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 8:15 pm
(@perry-williams)
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> What do you make of this statement in a contract?
>
> "Client should be aware of the fact that surveying is an inexact science and is subject to a certain degree of inaccuracy and opinion."

I'd say it's not a good idea to put in the contract. You could say the same thing about most any profession. Certainly the medical and legal professions anyway.

 
Posted : 20/06/2014 8:55 pm
(@tom-adams)
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Take out the statement and just add "more or less" at the end of the contract.

 
Posted : 21/06/2014 5:43 am