Ran across this while performing a retracement survey of a lot in a subdivision that was platted in 2009. What are the odds that this was set accurately, and has maintained and will maintain an accurate position? I'm betting they're pretty slim, so what is the point of setting a rebar in a live tree? I'm shaking my head, but perhaps someone out there can defend this particular practice.
Not trying to be a smart aleck about it, but if you shot it in, how close was it? I have set corners like that before when a witness monument would not suffice. Ever set a corner on a hillside? Ever gone back to check it 10 years later and found that it slid downhill with the natural slump of the topsoil? Natural ground swells and shrinks and doesn't always return to the correct location and is sometimes no better than the above. I had rather stick a rod in the root or butt swell of a tree than place one next to the tree. The tree will grow around a rod driven into it and displace it very little, while it may or may not grow around one set adjacent to the base.
Well, I guess you could always fall back on the exact measurements as stated on the plat.
What will be really sad is when there are two or three more rebars stuck in the tree.
maybe the TREE IS THE CORNER.....
It looks like there is an old broken brass cap at the base of that IR/C.
"What will be really sad is when there are two or three more rebars stuck in the tree."
That right there is funny.:-P
Don
Never set one like that but have set a few close to that to mark a tree that I was actually calling on the corner. It was noted on the survey that the pin wasn't on the corner, only marking the correct tree.
That's why all my rebar are pointed. You can drive them right into the tree.
i recall as a kid seeing the tree at the property corner of the office. it was a double tree that had an iron pipe wedged into the crease. the tree grew around it and there was the corner. now the tree is gone and so is the pipe.
i would not necessarily hold the tree. as long as the math falls within reason, it's a good enough corner.
of course, to set a point now, i'd offset it, but i would hate for some monument holder to come by and change a property because i set an offset monument.
You need to thoroughly blaze the side of the tree closest to the monument and the nearby roots. I would personally talk to the landowner and explain the situation and see if the tree could be cut down while it is still small.
So he can get hired again in the future to reestablish it ...Brilliant!
But yeah...if it fell inside the tree you could make a corner tree out of it...or chainsaw it to pieces remove the root wad but that would seem overkill for a dinky 5/8" rebar... especially if it was the clients favorite tree. Throw a gasoline powered jack hammer onto of that rebar and drive it down through the wood ...couple reference mons or bearing objects to hold it in place and Voilà
Just some quick replies to perpetuate the discussion:
1) The capped rebar is the lot corner as specified on the recorded plat, and clearly an "original" corner. There are no other monuments in the tree, I think that's probably a rock in the fork.
2) The measurement of the adjacent line is approximately 670' platted, and measures 0.2 feet short, so in the old terminology, an error of about 1:3,350. The local subdivision ordinance, and the plat certification, specify an EOC of 1:10,000 minimum.
3) There are enough other subdivision monuments to calculate a position for the lot corner, but if the rebar moves as the tree grows, does the lot corner move because that rebar is an original monument?
Just some quick thoughts. Appreciate the feedback.
The local subdivision ordinance, and the plat certification, specify an EOC of 1:10,000 minimum.
1:10,000 is very tight for a subdivision. That will just cause everyone staking a subdivision to violate the rule. An accuracy standard similar to ALTA's would work better.
I'd suggest asking the landowners permission to add an aluminum sign/tag(about 4" x 4") similar to way the Forest Service "tags" a Bearing Tree. stamp the alum sign with basic info (NW cor lot 12, etc), maybe adding reference to a recorded plat or Results of Survey book and page. not sure it would last longer than the rebar, but may be help for next surveyor.
> 1) The capped rebar is the lot corner as specified on the recorded plat, and clearly an "original" corner. There are no other monuments in the tree, I think that's probably a rock in the fork.
You found the corner. Part one of mission is accomplished.
> 2) The measurement of the adjacent line is approximately 670' platted, and measures 0.2 feet short, so in the old terminology, an error of about 1:3,350. The local subdivision ordinance, and the plat certification, specify an EOC of 1:10,000 minimum.
Don't stray off course now. I'd be willing to bet that neither your local subdivision ordinance, the plat certification(?), or any other statute or law requires (or even allows) you to reject an original corner because is doesn't meet some arbitrary measurement error ratio.
> 3) There are enough other subdivision monuments to calculate a position for the lot corner, but if the rebar moves as the tree grows, does the lot corner move because that rebar is an original monument?
>
You found the location. What is there to calculate???
Part two of mission. Perpetuate the original evidence. Place a few reference monuments to memorialize the location just in case the tree "moves", falls down, is hit by lightning, or falls victim to some other natural or man-caused disturbance. Record what you have found and done to preserve the location.
Mission Accomplished.
As to the practice of sticking a rebar in the crotch of a tree for a property corner? If this is the worst offense to the surveying profession you can find, dance a jig and rejoice is your good fortune. Trust me, there are a boat load of other despicable practices that we need to weed out before worrying about an original corner being set in a tree.
> That's why all my rebar are pointed. You can drive them right into the tree.
You point all your rebars in case the corner might fall into a tree? I set from 500-1000 corners a year and only one or two of those might have to be driven into a tree root or butt swell and even then the blunt in will go in easily enough.
If the bar was placed at the intended location precisely, and it just happened to be where it could be placed as shown, I see absolutely no problem with it. The bar is the monument. So what if it gets bent a little or the tree pushes harder one direction than the opposing root can resist. The bar is still the monument. The math is secondary.
No. It was just a joke.
But, yes all my rebar are pointed on one end and beveled on the other. The point helps drive the bar in (also helps keep in the correct location as it goes down) and the bevel keeps it from mushrooming so the aluminum or sometimes brass cap will seal to the bar. Otherwise you are out there with a rasp cleaning up the bar.
I probably set at least 1000 during a year. Many of my caps will be a 3-1/4" cap on a power grip rod or brass cap on a pipe, but for lesser corners it's a 5/8" rebar and 2" aluminum cap.
Up here you will want the point for at least 4-5 months out of the year even in loose soil because it's frozen (in the dead of winter 6' deep). Also, there is plenty of rocky and shaley soils that will really test your sledge hammer skills without the point.
As for the tree-I can think of only two trees I ended setting a cap in. One was a 1/4 corner that was only a stump at the time and another was a dispute between landowners and that was also a stump. Maybe there were others, but those two stick out.
My guess (and this is a wild guess) is that this might be one of those situations where the plat was done and then the corners were set. That can end up with someone setting a cap where he might not have otherwise. Even so, I'd jump on that cap. And I'm not going to worry a second that it doesn't meet a 1 in 10,000 standard. If there is a 60 foot road and you measure 60.02 across it then it is "off" as much at that cap when a ratio is applied to it.
An original cap has 0 error.
Hey, at least the tree is alive and standing. I've seen a picture where someone drove a rebar into a dead log lying on the ground.
no one has mentioned safety yet. what if the rebar was mostly embedded in the tree. i feel for the poor fool that puts a chainsaw on it and gets a chain whipped across the face or top of head. i don't want to put metal into a tree if i can avoid it.
