Is this the unlicensed practice of land surveying ... ??
A firm offers to the Public, particularly general contractors,
SUE services including GPR with GPS location and GIS mapping as
the product being sold by the firm. If you have any interest in
reading more you can read the string on LinkedIn "centerlinemapping.com"
or visit the website. Look forward to your comments.
SUE? There are too many acronyms in this modern world.?ÿ
The web page for www.centerlinemapping.com indicates that they provide training in using the technology, so no, it is not unlicensed practice. They are not offering to provide these mapping services.
@mightymoe?ÿ I figured it meant subsurface utility engineering with ground penetrating radar.?ÿ Doesn't sound like licensed survey work at all to me.
At least one of the vacuum excavator companies around here was doing that 20 years ago.?ÿ I don't know if they still are, and I've never heard of them being disciplined by the board. At the time, they insisted that they had checked with the board and that there was no problem.?ÿ But I told the engineers I was working with/for that I would not incorporate their data into my topo survey drawing files. They could xref it as a separate drawing if they felt comfortable.?ÿ
More recently I was given some location data from a vacuum excavator company that had had a PLS locate their holes. I was willing to use that, but ended up spot checking after all. For the record, I found no errors. I only wish that LS had contacted me beforehand so I could share the project control I had in the area.?ÿ
On a related note - I picked up up a job last spring from a heavy construction contractor that had invested in total stations to do their own layouts, but had despaired of keeping trained personnel to use it properly.?ÿ
The world is free to utilize all the available equipment with which to gaze at and record all the physical features features above, upon and below the surface of our orb.?ÿ And all of these entities are probably free to publish all the info and maps with which they think they can milk a buck.?ÿ
In Oklahoma, at least, it's not considered land surveying unless these maps make some sort of distinct or unique tie to a property or boundary line with some sort of implied accuracy or reliability.?ÿ The super-imposition of map overlays (including cadastral info) has not been yet been determined to cross the threshold into unlicensed land surveying.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Pipeline companies are notorious for producing pretty pictures without licensed surveyors that show their appurtenances crossing private properties and even describing the bounds of their proposed or existing easements.?ÿ I've been in local council meetings where unlicensed folks throw maps up on the big screen to indicate either existing or proposed utility routes and such.?ÿ But all of this falls short of the practice of land surveying for now.?ÿ And although our state board of licensure has bigger fish to fry, they do keep a wary eye out for infractions of our statutes.
That website is advertising training for how to locate features and place them into a GIS, which is something that a lot of non-surveyors do every day. If they aren't spatially relating them to boundaries, or representing boundaries in their datasets as surveyed boundaries, there's not much "surveying" going on. Statutes vary, of course, so maybe they are in violation in certain states...but it's not likely.
Municipalities, utilities, counties, etc. do GIS mapping all the time, and even publish the data. Pretty much all of them have disclaimers about the source and quality of the data.
We aren't the only folks who can collect and publish geospatial data, and I personally wouldn't want to restrict that function to surveyors. I know quite a few non-surveyors who can run circles around licensed surveyors when it comes to matters of geodesy and GIS.
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Philosophically, I pretty much have a free market bent when it comes to these types of services, including laser scanning, drone data collection, etc.
Offer the service at a better value, i.e, better service/quality/price/time frame than the other service provider. Being a licensed surveyor could be part of the value chain, but the customer may not care.
Is the data presented relative to a boundary line? If not, well... for me, I have way more important things to put my energy into.
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@slevinepls They sell software, provide training, and probably help the client in setting up a GIS. Their clients are the ones doing the mapping. From their "About" page:
About Us
Centerline Mapping
Centerline Mapping is a full-lifecycle Geographic Information System (GIS) consultancy firm driving business performance through innovative utility mapping and geospatial technology solutions. Centerline Mapping provides end-to-end GIS solutions and training for companies and organizations, enabling clients to efficiently map and manage critical utility data and information. Our certified GIS professionals work closely with clients to ensure quality deliverables and successful projects every time.
Some jurisdictions limit the practice of professional land surveying to boundaries, some don't. As usual a general question on this forum results is specific answers that may or may not be applicable.?ÿ
Is this the unlicensed practice of land surveying ... ??
No. ?????ÿ
It would be considered surveying without a license in NC.?ÿ The big issue is that GIS guys and gals typically have no understanding or training in error propagation.?ÿ If you ask them how accurate their data is they'll spit out the specs for a Trimble GeoMax.?ÿ If you ask them to prove it mathematically, they either get irritated, look confused, or look defeated.?ÿ Professors in GIS departments are no better and perhaps a bit worse because their ego gets in the way.?ÿ The common response I got while attending college was something along the lines of, "Well, for our purposes, the stated accuracy on the GeoMax will suffice?" (Sarcasm alert! Lets make it a requirement that all PLSs hold Masters degrees, that'll make solve all our problems)
NC has this in their rule book:?ÿ
21 NCAC 56 .1608 CLASSIFICATION/LAND INFORMATION SYSTEM/GEOGRAPHIC
INFORMATION SYSTEM SURVEYS
(a) General: "Land Information System/Geographic Information System (LIS/GIS)" surveys are defined as the
measurement of existing surface and subsurface features for the purpose of determining their accurate geospatial
location for inclusion in an LIS/GIS database. All LIS/GIS surveys as they relate to property lines, rights-of-way,
easements, subdivisions of land, the position for any survey monument or reference point, the determination of the
configuration or contour of the earth's surface or the position of fixed objects thereon, and geodetic surveying that
includes surveying for determination of the size and shape of the earth both horizontally and vertically and the
precise positioning of points on the earth utilizing angular and linear measurements through spatially oriented
spherical geometry, shall be performed by a Land Surveyor who is a licensee of this Board unless exempt by G.S.
89C-25. For the purpose of specifying minimum allowable surveying standards, five general classifications of
LIS/GIS surveys are established, any of which may be specified by the client. In the absence of a specified standard,
the surveyor shall conform the survey to the requirements for a Class B survey.
(1) For horizontal accuracy, the five general classifications are:
(A) Class AA LIS/GIS Surveys. For Class AA LIS/GIS surveys in North Carolina, the
relative accuracy shall be equal to or no less than 0.033 meter (0.10 feet);
(B) Class A LIS/GIS surveys. For Class A LIS/GIS surveys in North Carolina, the relative
accuracy shall be equal to or less than 0.5 meter (1.64 feet);
(C) Class B LIS/GIS surveys. For Class B LIS/GIS surveys in North Carolina, the relative
accuracy shall be equal to or less than 1.0 meter (3.28 feet);
(D) Class C LIS/GIS surveys. For Class C LIS/GIS surveys in North Carolina, the relative
accuracy shall be equal to or less than 2 meters (6.56 feet); and
(E) Class D LIS/GIS surveys. For Class D LIS/GIS surveys in North Carolina, the relative
accuracy shall be equal to or less than 5 meters (16.40 feet).?ÿ
Sort of off tangent....This entire market space is like the wild west.?ÿ The demand for underground utility information on both the design and construction side is way outpacing both the supply for the locating services and, most importantly, the discussion as to standards and practices.
Company A & B can appear to offer the same service when:
Firm A sends out a "one-call spray and pray" guy with a few days training in locating and some GIS grade mapping equipment and Firm B has a PLS on staff to oversee (and certify) the mapping; a PE to evaluation the field data with the original plans and as-builts and make a professional judgement (and certification) on the utility locations; and a geologist with a geophysics background to determine the best geophysical equipment for the individual projects based on the utility and ground conditions.?ÿ?ÿ
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The big issue is that GIS guys and gals typically have no understanding or training in error propagation.?ÿ If you ask them how accurate their data is they'll spit out the specs for a Trimble GeoMax.?ÿ If you ask them to prove it mathematically, they either get irritated, look confused, or look defeated.?ÿ Professors in GIS departments are no better and perhaps a bit worse because their ego gets in the way.
Interesting. That was not at all how it worked when I went back for my four-year degree. GIS-track students took statistics and spatial data adjustments just like the survey-track students, and professors were anything but egotistical (although they didn't particularly care for survey-track students dismissing GIS-track students). Error propagation, error reporting and metadata standards were heavily emphasized.
It's not unlicensed practice.?ÿ
We let the GIS ship sail away from us years ago.?ÿ I'm not upset about it, I consider myself a boundary surveyor, not a data collection/measurement/BS compilation expert.
As others have said, we don't own the right to operate equipment.