Does your State regulate whether a licensed surveyor in another state can perform a topographic survey in your state where no boundary work is involved? Please indicate your sate license when responding, Thanks!
In California, anyone can locate geologic and landscape features, civil engineers can locate geologic, landscape and fixed works of engineering (structures, improvements), and surveyors can interpret the boundaries. The rules are definitely pushed by civils and many other contractors.
I'm from Maine and I believe that licensing is required here only for boundary work.
BarryP, post: 338496, member: 2548 wrote: Does your State regulate whether a licensed surveyor in another state can perform a topographic survey in your state where no boundary work is involved? Please indicate your sate license when responding, Thanks!
From our Oklahoma State Statutes:
7. a. "Practice of land surveying" means any service or work, the adequate performance of which involves the application of special knowledge of the principles of mathematics, methods of measurement, and the law for the determination and preservation of land boundaries. "Practice of land surveying" includes, without limitation:
(1) restoration and rehabilitation of corners and boundaries in the United States Public Land Survey System or the subdivision thereof,
(2) obtaining and evaluating evidence for the accurate determination of land boundaries,
(3) determination of the areas and elevations of land parcels for a survey,
(4) monumenting the subdivision of land parcels into smaller parcels and the preparation of the descriptions in connection therewith,
(5) measuring and platting underground mine workings,
(6) preparation of the control portions of geographic information systems and land information systems,
(7) establishment, restoration, and rehabilitation of land survey monuments and bench marks,
(8) preparation of land survey plats, condominium plats, monument records, and survey reports,
(9) surveying, monumenting, and platting of easements, and rights-of-way,
(10) measuring, locating, or establishing lines, angles, elevations, natural and man-made features in the air, on the surface of the earth, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water for the purpose of determining areas and volumes for a survey,
(11) geodetic surveying, and
(12) any other activities incidental to and necessary for the adequate performance of the services described in this paragraph.
Although it is commonly spoken that a "topo" is only considered land surveying if it references a boundary or land line on the survey, that may not be entirely correct. The statutes above seem as though they could be stretched a great deal to include a lot....But as far as I know no unlicensed individual has ever been busted for topoing without a license in Oklahoma...unless they have presented themselves as a "surveyor" by deed or word.
Engineers and surveyors can "determine the configuration or contour of the earth's surface, or the position of fixed objects above, on, or below the surface of the earth by applying the principles of mathematics or photogrammetry."
In North Carolina our board has a certificate surveyors are suppose to put on topo's, that is different from the certificate from boundary surveys. If you do boundary and topo work you are suppose to use both.
Nope. No license req for Topo works.
QLD, Australia.
Florida, must be a licensed surveyor to conduct topo surveys.
New Jersey requires a licensed surveyor for topography. I believe Pennsylvania does not.....correct me if I'm wrong PA guys...
Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire allow PE's to do topo for design. Problematic in that the amount of plans you see with "Approximate Right of Way" or "Approximate Property Line" from engineers is disturbing, particularly when they are obtaining easements (temporary and permanent) based on said approximate lines.
Travis P, post: 338507, member: 10546 wrote: In California, anyone can locate geologic and landscape features, civil engineers can locate geologic, landscape and fixed works of engineering (structures, improvements), and surveyors can interpret the boundaries. The rules are definitely pushed by civils and many other contractors.
Actually in California, topographic surveying is included in the definition of land surveying which requires someone authorized to perform/prepare. Civil engineers licensed prior to 1982 are authorized provided they are working within their area of expertise. Civil engineers licensed after 1981 have the additional authority to perform topographic surveys but cannot relate those surveys to property lines, right-of-way lines, or record centerlines.
Here's a couple of excerpts from the California Professional Land Surveyors Act. Based upon this, to perform a topo survey, you need to be licensed (though there are exceptions). But really, the big deal would be if you are trying to make money doing this. No one can stop a land owner from going out and doing their own topo work on their own property and preparing an exhibit for their own use. But if you try to do it as a business, that's when you will need the license.
8725. Necessity of license
Any person practicing, or offering to practice, land surveying in this state shall submit evidence that he or she is qualified to practice and shall be licensed under this chapter.
It is unlawful for any person to practice, offer to practice, or represent himself or herself, as a land surveyor in this state, or to set, reset, replace or remove any survey monument on land in which he or she has no legal interest, unless he or she has been licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under this chapter.
8726. Land surveying defined
A person, including any person employed by the state or by a city, county, or city and county within the state, practices land surveying within the meaning of this chapter who, either in a public or private capacity, does or offers to do any one or more of the following:
(a) Locates, relocates, establishes, reestablishes, or retraces the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering, as described in Section 6731.
(b) Determines the configuration or contour of the earthÛªs surface, or the position of fixed objects above, on, or below the surface of the earth by applying the principles of mathematics or photogrammetry.
(c) Locates, relocates, establishes, reestablishes, or retraces any property line or boundary of any parcel of land, right-of-way, easement, or alignment of those lines or boundaries.
(d) Makes any survey for the subdivision or resubdivision of any tract of land. For the purposes of this subdivision, the term ÛÏsubdivisionÛ or ÛÏresubdivisionÛ shall be defined to include, but not limited to, the definition in the Subdivision Map Act (Division 2 (commencing with Section 66410) of Title 7 of the Government Code) or the Subdivided Lands Law (Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 11000) of Part 2 of Division 4 of this Code).
(e) By the use of the principles of land surveying determines the position for any monument or reference point which marks a property line, boundary, or corner, or sets, resets, or replaces any such monument or reference point.
(f) Geodetic or cadastral surveying. As used in this chapter, geodetic surveying means performing surveys, in which account is taken of the figure and size of the earth to determine or predetermine the horizontal or vertical positions of fixed objects thereon or related thereto, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations for use in the practice of land surveying or for stating the position of fixed objects, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations by California Coordinate System coordinates.
(g) Determines the information shown or to be shown on any map or document prepared or furnished in connection with any one or more of the functions described in subdivisions (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), and (f).
(h) Indicates, in any capacity or in any manner, by the use of the title ÛÏland surveyorÛ or by any other title or by any other representation that he or she practices or offers to practice land surveying in any of its branches.
(i) Procures or offers to procure land surveying work for himself, herself, or others.
(j) Manages, or conducts as manager, proprietor, or agent, any place of business from which land surveying work is solicited, performed or practiced.
(k) Coordinates the work of professional, technical, or special consultants in connection with the activities authorized by this chapter.
(l) Determines the information shown or to be shown within the description of any deed, trust deed, or other title document prepared for the purpose of describing the limit of real property in connection with any one or more of the functions described in subdivisions (a) to (f), inclusive.
(m) Creates, prepares, or modifies electronic or computerized data in the performance of the activities described in subdivisions (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), (k) and (l).
(n) Renders a statement regarding the accuracy of maps or measured survey data.
Any department or agency of the state or any city, county, or city and county that has an unregistered person in responsible charge of land surveying work on January 1, 1986, shall be exempt from the requirement that the person be licensed as a land surveyor until such time as the person currently in responsible charge is replaced.
The review, approval, or examination by a governmental entity of documents prepared or performed pursuant to this section shall be done by, or under the direct supervision of, a person authorized to practice land surveying.
skwyd, post: 338695, member: 6874 wrote: Here's a couple of excerpts from the California Professional Land Surveyors Act. Based upon this, to perform a topo survey, you need to be licensed (though there are exceptions). But really, the big deal would be if you are trying to make money doing this. No one can stop a land owner from going out and doing their own topo work on their own property and preparing an exhibit for their own use. But if you try to do it as a business, that's when you will need the license.
8725. Necessity of license
Any person practicing, or offering to practice, land surveying in this state shall submit evidence that he or she is qualified to practice and shall be licensed under this chapter.
It is unlawful for any person to practice, offer to practice, or represent himself or herself, as a land surveyor in this state, or to set, reset, replace or remove any survey monument on land in which he or she has no legal interest, unless he or she has been licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under this chapter...
...No one can stop a land owner from going out and doing their own topo work on their own property and preparing an exhibit for their own use...
True, but only as you stated for their own use. A land owner cannot do a topographic survey of their property or a portion of their property and represent that in an application to a local permitting agency. That action requires a license as a land surveyor (or civil engineer if property lines are not shown).
Item (10) of the OK statute would seem to be referring to topographic mapping, in my mind. Oregon law has very similar language. Why it is left so vague I do not understand.
I'm unaware of anybody not a PLS getting disciplined specifically for topographic mapping without a license. What usually happens is the unlicensed proprietor of some "field service" gets caught leaving some member of the public the impression that they are a surveyor - often in spite of their careful protestations to the contrary (he had a truck and equipment and a red vest, after all)- and gets their chain yanked for that.
Norman Oklahoma, post: 338734, member: 9981 wrote: Item (10) of the OK statute would seem to be referring to topographic mapping, in my mind. Oregon law has very similar language. Why it is left so vague I do not understand.
I'm unaware of anybody not a PLS getting disciplined specifically for topographic mapping without a license. What usually happens is the unlicensed proprietor of some "field service" gets caught leaving some member of the public the impression that they are a surveyor - often in spite of their careful protestations to the contrary (he had a truck and equipment and a red vest, after all)- and gets their chain yanked for that.
In days past around Oklahoma, most engineers were also surveyors, since our licensing only began in 1969-1970. It was not uncommon for engineers to utilize their drafting department to perform the necessary topography work, for say, a sewer project. Technically it was being supervised by a licensed surveyor. As these licensed gents retired, a lot of firms found themselves without a PLS on staff, but continued with the status-quo of dabbling in field work when the situation required. Hence the line being drawn "if the topo is indicated to be tied to a boundary, or if new R/W is required", a PLS would need to oversee the work.
This actually was argued well into the eighties. A lot of the older engineers still felt licensed surveyors on their payroll were unnecessary. And the older engineers were thick with the State Board...most of them occupied a chair there; hence the vagueness of the statutes.
Most of the engineers that grandfathered their LS license are gone. Licensed surveyors established themselves in professional settings and the "argument" just died a quiet death. And we're left with wording in the rules that can be read from both sides. Like I said, I've never seen anybody busted for " topo work without a license ".
?ÿPaden Cash,?ÿ
?ÿBarryP, post: 338496, member: 2548 wrote: Does your State regulate whether a licensed surveyor in another state can perform a topographic survey in your state where no boundary work is involved? Please indicate your sate license when responding, Thanks!
From our Oklahoma State Statutes:
7. a. "Practice of land surveying" means any service or work, the adequate performance of which involves the application of special knowledge of the principles of mathematics, methods of measurement, and the law for the determination and preservation of land boundaries. "Practice of land surveying" includes, without limitation:
(1) restoration and rehabilitation of corners and boundaries in the United States Public Land Survey System or the subdivision thereof,
(2) obtaining and evaluating evidence for the accurate determination of land boundaries,
(3) determination of the areas and elevations of land parcels for a survey,
(4) monumenting the subdivision of land parcels into smaller parcels and the preparation of the descriptions in connection therewith,
(5) measuring and platting underground mine workings,
(6) preparation of the control portions of geographic information systems and land information systems,
(7) establishment, restoration, and rehabilitation of land survey monuments and bench marks,
(8) preparation of land survey plats, condominium plats, monument records, and survey reports,
(9) surveying, monumenting, and platting of easements, and rights-of-way,
(10) measuring, locating, or establishing lines, angles, elevations, natural and man-made features in the air, on the surface of the earth, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water for the purpose of determining areas and volumes for a survey,
(11) geodetic surveying, and
(12) any other activities incidental to and necessary for the adequate performance of the services described in this paragraph.Although it is commonly spoken that a "topo" is only considered land surveying if it references a boundary or land line on the survey, that may not be entirely correct. The statutes above seem as though they could be stretched a great deal to include a lot....But as far as I know no unlicensed individual has ever been busted for topoing without a license in Oklahoma...unless they have presented themselves as a "surveyor" by deed or word.
?ÿ
In Alaska you must be a licensed surveyor to perform topographic surveys and topographic mapping for others for?ÿthe platting and planning of land and subdivisions of land (or if the mapping is representing another covered survey activity).?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFederal Employees can perform these surveys if it is part of their official duties.
These requirements apply regardless of what technology or software is used (total station, GNSS, photogrammetry, plane table, LiDAR, AutoCAD, ArcGIS, Bentley, paper & crayon, planes, trains, automobiles, etc.)
There are situations where someone could prepare a topo map without licensure (maybe for a mini golf course or a orienteering event) - you have to look at the situation with the statute in hand to discern if a specific activity is covered or not.?ÿ
The following is?ÿthe definition for engineer and surveyor in?ÿCT.?ÿ
Copied from https://www.cga.ct.gov/2015/pub/chap_391.htm
?ÿ
Sec. 20-299. Definitions. As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) ??Professional engineer? means a person who is qualified by reason of his knowledge of mathematics, the physical sciences and the principles of engineering, acquired by professional education and practical experience, to engage in engineering practice, including rendering or offering to render to clients any professional service such as consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning, design or responsible supervision of construction, in connection with any public or privately-owned structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, works or projects in which the public welfare or the safeguarding of life, public health or property is concerned or involved;
(2) ??Land surveyor? means a person who is qualified by knowledge of mathematics, physical and applied sciences and the principles of land surveying, and who is licensed under this chapter to practice or offer to practice the profession of land surveying, including, but not limited to: (A) Measuring, evaluating or mapping elevations, topography, planimetric features or land areas of any portion of the earth??s surface; (B) determining positions of points with respect to appropriate horizontal or vertical datums in order to establish control networks for topographic, planimetric or cadastral mapping; (C) measuring, evaluating, mapping, monumenting or otherwise marking on the ground, property boundary lines, interior lot lines of subdivisions, easements, rights-of-way or street lines; (D) measuring, evaluating, mapping or marking on the ground, the horizontal location of existing or proposed buildings, structures or other improvements with respect to property boundary lines, building, setback, zoning or restriction lines, existing or proposed interior lot lines, easements, rights-of-way or street lines; (E) measuring, evaluating, mapping or reporting the vertical location of existing or proposed buildings, structures or other improvements with respect to vertical reference surfaces, including base flood elevations; (F) measuring, evaluating, mapping or reporting the location of existing or proposed buildings, structures or other improvements or their surrounding topography with respect to flood insurance rate mapping or federal emergency management agency mapping; (G) measuring or mapping inland wetland boundaries delineated by a soil scientist; (H) creating or mapping surveys required for condominiums or planned communities meeting the requirements of section 47-228; (I) monumenting or otherwise marking on the ground, property subject to development rights, vertical unit boundaries, horizontal unit boundaries, leasehold real property or limited common elements described in section 47-228; (J) evaluating or designing the horizontal or vertical alignment of roads in conjunction with the layout and mapping of a subdivision; (K) measuring, evaluating or mapping areas under the earth??s surface and the beds of bodies of water;
skwyd, post: 338695, member: 6874 wrote: Here's a couple of excerpts from the California Professional Land Surveyors Act. Based upon this, to perform a topo survey, you need to be licensed (though there are exceptions). But really, the big deal would be if you are trying to make money doing this. No one can stop a land owner from going out and doing their own topo work on their own property and preparing an exhibit for their own use. But if you try to do it as a business, that's when you will need the license.
8725. Necessity of license
Any person practicing, or offering to practice, land surveying in this state shall submit evidence that he or she is qualified to practice and shall be licensed under this chapter.
It is unlawful for any person to practice, offer to practice, or represent himself or herself, as a land surveyor in this state, or to set, reset, replace or remove any survey monument on land in which he or she has no legal interest, unless he or she has been licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under this chapter...?ÿ
...No one can stop a land owner from going out and doing their own topo work on their own property and preparing an exhibit for their own use...
True, but only as you stated for their own use. A land owner cannot do a topographic survey of their property or a portion of their property and represent that in an application to a local permitting agency. That action requires a license as a land surveyor (or civil engineer if property lines are not shown).
I don't think that most local agencies are aware of this.?ÿ Of those that are, they probably don't care for relatively minor permitted activities, i.e. minor grading involved with landscaping projects (in fact, topo for landscaping is one of the exceptions to the license requirement), residential septic fields, minor outbuildings, patio decks, etc.
?ÿ
?ÿCan you please link me where this is in in the Statutes? I am having trouble finding it. I know there are some recently approved changed by the board and legislature taking effect in Sept 2018 but I do not think it would have axed this 7a correct???.....