Oregon State Law allows an engineer to do topographic surveys in support of their own engineering projects. The City of Portland nevertheless requires that existing conditions maps (ie/ topos) prepared for subdivision design be done by a PLS.?ÿ It may be that, in other cases as well, your?ÿ state law is not the final answer to this question.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
See this map. http://www.asprs.org/a/society/divisions/ppd/State_Licensure_Map/State_Licensure_Map.html
Travis P, post: 338507, member: 10546 wrote: In California, anyone can locate geologic and landscape features, civil engineers can locate geologic, landscape and fixed works of engineering (structures, improvements), and surveyors can interpret the boundaries. The rules are definitely pushed by civils and many other contractors.
Actually in California, topographic surveying is included in the definition of land surveying which requires someone authorized to perform/prepare. Civil engineers licensed prior to 1982 are authorized provided they are working within their area of expertise. Civil engineers licensed after 1981 have the additional authority to perform topographic surveys but cannot relate those surveys to property lines, right-of-way lines, or record centerlines.
Interestingly, as I was instructed by a former BPELSG appointee to the board, post-82 CE's in Calif.?ÿare limited to plane survey methods when performing topographic and construction surveying, whereas LS's have the authority to use spherical geometry.
Per the CA PE Act, one is practicing civil engineering when he/she:
"Determines the configuration or contour of the earth??s surface or the position of fixed objects above, on, or below the surface of earth by applying the principles of trigonometry or photogrammetry."
But, per the CA LS Act, one is practicing land surveying when he/she:
"Determines the configuration or contour of the earth??s surface, or the position of fixed objects above, on, or below the surface of the earth by applying the principles of mathematics or photogrammetry."
The difference between these two authoritative empowerments is by intention, i.e. "trigonometry" vs the more all encompassing "mathmatices".
In addition, per the CA LS Act, one is practicing land surveying when he/she performs:
"Geodetic or cadastral surveying. As used in this chapter, geodetic surveying means performing surveys, in which account is taken of the figure and size of the earth to determine or predetermine the horizontal or vertical positions of fixed objects thereon or related thereto, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations for use in the practice of land surveying or for stating the position of fixed objects, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations by California Coordinate System coordinates."
Which is intentionally absent from the CA PE Act, and which further narrowly gives definition to the narrow scope of topographic and construction surveying a post-82 PE can perform as opposed to the broad based empowerments granted to land surveyors.
Unfortunately these nuances are relatively little understood and are greatly degraded by current activities being performed by general engineering contractors and others. Unless BPELSG, CLSA, CLSB and CA DOT (among others) unify in their understanding of the law, industry standard of practice will continue to be in conflict with statutory law.
Regardless of regulations we are supposed to be professional in our thought and action. We live in a society that values only the bottom line. So the question for many becomes, "How cheaply can I get this done?"?ÿ
I often wonder how can you do a topographic survey if you do not know where the boundary is? I also wonder why would you do a topographic survey without needing to know the boundary?
It appears that approach is just trying to circumnavigate the need of hiring a land surveyor.
My answer would be: If I could do everything myself I still wouldn't.?ÿ
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
Illinois requires a PLS to do topographic although PE's are also,
See this map. http://www.asprs.org/a/society/divisions/ppd/State_Licensure_Map/State_Licensure_Map.html
See that maps disclaimer and take the map with a grain of ... err... salt lick. It's a nice that someone wants to simplify complex legal language down to a few colors. Unfortunately that leads to a lot of assumptions and missed nuance - which they acknowledge in the disclaimer - which nearly everyone skips so that they can get to the data:
This map represents the ASPRS best effort at determining current State licensing requirements for photogrammetry and related remote sensing services.?ÿ This map is not a definitive interpretation of State laws or requirements.?ÿ It is intended as a resource to assist photogrammetric mapping and remote sensing professionals in determining what those specific requirements may be.
For the purposes of this map, at a minimum, photogrammetric mapping services are defined as topographic mapping depicting the authoritative location of features or terrain using photogrammetry or related remote sensing technologies. Some states have a much broader definition of photogrammetric mapping to include GIS and similar services. Before providing geospatial mapping services in any State, practitioners must check with the appropriate State Board to make a final determination of which licensing requirements apply to the specific type of work that will be performed
I don't worry about it, since I only topo where I'm licensed.?ÿ I've learned that it's too frustrating and counterproductive to fixate about what others are doing.
?ÿCan you please link me where this is in in the Statutes? I am having trouble finding it. I know there are some recently approved changed by the board and legislature taking effect in Sept 2018 but I do not think it would have axed this 7a correct???.....What you are looking for is Title 59 of the Oklahoma Statutes, Section 475.2. It seems that, at this time, the Russians have hacked the OK State website, so I can't give you a working link.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ
I guess my question would then be why do unlicensed consultants perform construction staking or topographic data collection with newer technology and no survey experience? I know boundary work is tightly regulated but the board has not taken action against either of those above examples that seem to be included under the professional services of land surveying definition in the aforementioned statutes. The only thing they have done recently is made a requirement for control surveys to be cert/stamped/signed effective Sept of this year.
I believe that the OK state board is quite busy chasing down licensed individuals who aren't performing to minimum standards. They just don't have the resources to get at the the grey areas of?ÿ engineers doing topos and contractors doing layout.?ÿ?ÿ