When I was looking up info on Leica total stations, I found a PDF that listed all the model numbers, their manufacture dates, and various specs/features. I was able to memorize what's what fairly quickly and chase down the right model.
With Topcon I'm lost. There are so many different model numbers. Some are only slightly different. Is there a similar resource available as the Leica one?
Can I ask why you are comparing Leica to Topcon robots?
I've mostly used Leica and a little Trimble plus comments I've read on here indicate those two brands are head and shoulders above anything else. If you don't want the top shelf Geomax are poor man's (previous generation technology but still great; I use mine with XPAD but some on here love survPC for reasons I can't follow) Leica and Spectra Precision are the Trimble off brand (but no idea if they are nearly as good as the Trimble robots).
I prefer the Lecia passive tracking which seems more precise when measuring (and lighter/cheaper at the pole end) but the Trimble active track sounds like it's the rock solid lock option for productivity. Depends if your doing boundary/control or topo in scrub/bulk set out on a busy site.
I run Topcon and Sokkia gear and wouldn't replace it for any Leica or Trimble. You pay in excess for maintenance and other crap.
If you buy a Topcon you get everything in one app on your fieldbook; No messing around with additional cost for routines you would want to have.
All the projects i have layed out have produced no error in construction in the 15 years i've been doing business by myself.
Stop this Topcon bashing and calculate the cost of ownership of a Leica or Trimble kit.
calculate the cost of ownership of a Leica or Trimble kit.
I advise checking the cost of ownership of GeoMax versus either Leica or Trimble. It's been almost 8 years since I did so, but the difference was dramatic.
It really depends on type of work you do, and what you want to do with the gear.
If I were starting out solo and wanted to run lean and mean for a few years I'd absolutely look into Spectra, Carlson and GeoMax. I'd look into Topcon too I were more savvy with the software, but I'm already more comfortable with a half dozen other brands and know I'd be able to get up and running faster.
But honestly I really like, and use, a lot of the fancy bells and whistles that Trimble puts out.
Neither Leica nor Trimble appear to be hurting from their current business model. They have invested a ton of money in full "ecosystems" that are targeted for enterprise-level deployment at midsize and larger firms who do work across many different geomatics disciplines and want full compatibility and scalability without patchwork solutions.
I also know a lot of smaller shops that run the "too expensive" stuff - and make lots of money doing it.
Kieth, I have not found a source similar to the Leica PDF. There is the Topcom museum page:
https://www.topcon.co.jp/en/positioning/topcon/museum/ts/
I have found Surveyconnect.com to be very helpful if you ask. There is at least one member that was/is a dealer for more than 20 years, and a couple of folks that are current users that try and help answer Topcon specific questions. Den
Since the advent of the GTS-600 series instruments that appeared first in Topon's lineup in 1999, the last digit of the model number indicates the angular accuracy rating in the series. So the GTS-601 was rated 1" angular accuracy, the GTS-602 was rated 2" and so on. The model series the GTS-600 replaced was the GTS-310 series. It featured the GTS-310 (1"), the GTS-311 (2"); the GTS-312 (3") and the GTS-313 (5"). Then the GTS-220 series was released in the year 2000. There were the GTS-223 (3"), the GTS-225 (5"), the GTS-226 (6") and the GTS-229 (9"). Then came the first Bluetooth-enabled model series - the GTS-230W series with the same angular accuracies as the GTS-220 series. After that, any new Topcon model with a W on the end of the model name was wireless capable. For additional confusion, along about that time, Topcon introduced their first pulse laser reflectorless instruments. Those model included the GPT-1000 series (still not getting the angular accuracy in the model number yet with those. Then came the GPT-2000 series that included the angular accuracy rating within the model number, with 2", 3", 5" & 7" models. That series was followed by the GPT-3000 series, which was soon replaced by the GPT-3000W series as Bluetooth was added.
There were also the higher-rated instuments such as the GTS-700 and GTS-710 series. And later came the GTS-720 and GPT-7000 series.
All those were replaced by the ES-100 series which was the first Topcon instrument that had the EDM technology from their acquisition of Sokkia. Those instruments were all capable of reflectorless measurement. the ES-100 series was superseded by the GM-100 series.
The foregoing is not exhaustive. Suffice it to say in closing that any Topcon total stations, including their robots made in the last 15 years, designate the angular accuracy rating by the final digit in the model number.
@dewam Thank-you. This is exactly what I needed. And from here I can look up the respective guides for each model number.
I agree. This site is really a wealth of good advice.
@jerrys Thanks Jerry! The model numbers seem more numerous compared to other manufactures. And for whatever reason, When I see a Leica model number I know what it is (for example, Robotic, not robotic, etc...). Maybe just because I'm more familiar with them.
One thing I'm specifically trying to figure out at the moment is if there is a difference between their "auto tracking" and "robotic" total stations. Basically whether or not the "auto tracking" stations are actually 1-man machines and if they track well.
@lukenz In short I'll just need a cheap robot (or two) in the future. Many Topcon robots are really inexpensive compared to Trimble/Leica stuff.
And a longer explaination:
I do construction layout. In construction layout many of the "value added" features included with Trimble/Leica (and other brands) just aren't necessary (for me at least, but I'm sure they are invaluable to land surveyors). But you'll still pay for them. Any software will work for construction layout. Sometimes you'll just have to click through more screens for certain features. The more basic the better and a lot of guys prefer older software. Older software is hard to find so buying new might the only option, and Topcon Magnet is considerably cheaper (at least last time I checked) than most other software. It's maybe only slightly cheaper than SurvPC/FieldGenius but seems a bit easier to use for me at least.
If I got a screaming deal on a Leica TPS 1200 I'd snatch it up in a second and just sort the software/controller out after. But those are getting hard to find, and although they are great total stations, their age makes their reliability questionable. Knowing what's what with Topcon basically just gives me more options when I do buy an instrument or a replacement when whatever I'm using bites the dust.
@beuckie Are you also a construction layout guy? Topcon seems to accommodate that branch a little better than the other big players. I see lots of crews using Hilti... it's more expensive and less capable than most Topcon setups. A marketing rep usually convinces a manager to go that route. For people that want to learn as little as possible maybe that's the best choice. The contractors using Hilti were in situations where their layout wasn't critical, or they were a complete disaster and got away with all their layout mistakes because the general contractor was asleep and too dumb to care. Those I worked for/with that were actually skilled at layout used other stuff, including Topcon.
@rover83 The weird thing is that in my area, anything Spectra/Carlson/Geomax is quite expensive. For example, I'd probably be able to find a Leica total station for cheaper than a used Geomax, and the Leica would be a better performing model. I've also read that many service centers actually charge more to service a Geomax (I have no clue why but they do).
Maybe people have a tenancy to overvalue the stuff because it's rare here. And perhaps the same applies for the servicing.
I think the Geomax's are basically TPS1200's? Or at least one version of them? So if a deal popped up then for sure I'd buy it!
Yes, I agree that there are quite a number of models and I did not name all of them. Bear in mind that my list goes back to 1998 which is the year I began at Hayes Instrument Co.
As for the instruments that are motorized, the ones that have an “A” on the end of the model so that the GTS-801A would be the Auto-tracking model whereas one that does not have the “A” appended to the model name is servo only. I only remember one instance of that model that didn’t have the auto tracking feature. The State of New York bought several of them, perhaps to save money. But because people looking for that class of instruments were looking for one with the tracking feature those instruments were essentially worthless as trade in units because they were not equipped to track. .
After the GTS-800A series, there was the GTS-810A series featuring the same 1”&3” models and a 5” model, the GTS-815A was added. Near that time they added a GPT-8000A series with the same 1”,3”&5” models but featuring an EDM capable of reflectorless measurement. The last version of the series built on that frame included the GTS-820A and GPT-8200A series with the same 1”,3”&5” models.
That series yielded to the GTS-900A and GPT-9000A with the same 1”,3”,&5” models. There were quite a few changes with the frame being more compact, but the biggest difference was that these instrument featured a 2.4 GHz radio module built in to the gun as Topcon tried to convert everyone to running their TopSURV software with the then available hardware to use as field controllers. The final version of that series was the QS series with no non-reflectorless model available, with 1”,3”,&5” models all with the A appended so that the most popular model, the 3” version was the QS3A.
The last three series of auto tracking robots include the PS-100 series, the GT-500 & GT-1000, and the current GT-600 and GT-1200 series.
The PS and GT robots are not offered WITHOUT the auto tracking feature, nor was the PS100 series.
I’m pretty sure that does not help a whole lot, but October will mark 25 years at Hayes and I assure you, I have seen a lot of models come and go in that time.
@jerrys I can assure you that all that was helpful. Some of the model numbers are not listed in the extensive link listed above, in particular the QS series. I'll have a second read later to process that all.
Multiple reasons why it's helpful include the fact that many Ebay sellers list non-robotic models as "robotic". "Buyer beware" obviously applies to someone who doesn't even know that their total station is robotic (or not), but I guess it just highlights the importance of knowing which model is which. Note that I'll likely buy something locally but I use Ebay to gauge market values. Prices for used equipment vary wildly compared to actual worth.
Part of what should drive your decision is what software you want to run the robot with. The QS series worked well with Survey Pro and Carlson and well as the TopSurv that was the software that Topcon had at the time. (the current Topcon Magnet Field software is a relabeled and significantly advanced next generation of TopSurv)
The important thing to remember about the QS series is that the RC4R remote comm and search tool is valuable because the 2.4 GHz radio is in the RC-4R instead of being a module in the back of the collector. They are getting scarce and parts are not available for them.
The screaming deal on a Lecia 1200 looks like buying a Geomax zoom 95 (the same thing) and then use XPAD which is super easy for layout or survPC if you go the Carlson route (Carlson just rebadge the Geomax).
But as always you need a decent dealer for the great nearby!
@lukenz In short I'll just need a cheap robot (or two) in the future. Many Topcon robots are really inexpensive compared to Trimble/Leica stuff.
A topcon isn't inferior to other brands. Do you know how much Leica and Trimble put in their marketing? That has to be paid for.
@jerrys Am I confused if I were to say that the RC's are similar to what some of the guys here did with Parani SD bluetooth transmitters/receivers? Basically creating a wireless COMM link between the total station and their controllers. I've managed to do this successfully with a cheaper non robotic total station. If I can do the same with a Topcon it would be a bonus. The Paranis are only like $100 - 200. And their range should be plenty for anything I'd do in the foreseeable future.
The RC's, especially model number 3 and above, seem to be very expensive. Maybe the asking prices are out to lunch. I do like the idea of having everything "modular" so to speak; that is not having everything built into one unit, and having that unit break... If I ever get into things like 3D scanning for instance, the 3D scanner will most likely be an independent unit from my robot.
Come to think of it I've noticed the RC's in the field quite a bit but only know what they are now after starting this post.
The RC-3 would work with a QS. And the Parani Bluetooth device will work with any Topcon robot with the possible exception of the APL-1 and APL-1A. The advantage of the RC-4R is that it has the 2.4 GHz radio module in the remote unit that goes on top of the 360-degree prism. The communication range of the RC-4 is a bit longer than that of the RC-3. The RC-4R also has dual infrared beams for the quick lock function, so is a bit better at turning the instrument to you when you have lost lock or are bringing the total station out of standby.
As for the Parani, the SD1000 model is the one you need for the total station and they can be bought for a little over $100. But to get a day's work out of it, you should also purchase the extended capacity battery for it. That's another $40-$50. And to achieve the range you need for robotic operation, you will also need to find a higher gain antenna than the unity gain antenna that comes with the SD1000. That is another $40-$50. The standard antenna limits the effective range to 100 feet or thereabouts. Finally, you also need a Topcon instrument to data collector cable to connect the Parani to the total station. Those go for around $65-$100. So, you can expect to have about $350-$400 in a complete Parani rig to replace the radios, whether Satel or the 2.4 GHz of the GTS-900 or GPT-9000 or QS series.
Leica and Spectra Precision are the Trimble off brand
Leica has nothing to do with Trimble. That is a mis-statement.
Spectra Precision is owned by Trimble, and I can believe that there may be some shared technology in the two units, but they come off production lines in completely different parts of the world. Very little in common, I think.
In recent years I have had opportunity to use Trimble, Leica, and Topcon. If I were using a total station all day, every day, and didn't have to pay the bill, I'd want the Trimble.
I have long said that one should shop for the data collector and buy the instrument it runs best. I'm buying Leica.
