I do 70-80% construction layout, and I've used the sokkia ix-503, topcon gt-503 (only for a few months when the motors died on the ix), Leica tcrp1203+ and now a Trimble s5.
If it was my choice I'd take the Leica. Actually I'd take the ts16 which I got to test for about 20 minutes once (just with my own tablet and fieldgenius so no captivate features).
I think my preferred software would be magnet field, but it's been a couple years now since I used it. It had way less bugs than Trimble Access, by far and the software was fast on my tablet. Also the gt-503 worked a lot better than the ix-503, so when we got our original robot back from warranty I switched to the Leica with paranis. Later the boss got me the RH17 Bluetooth handle to go with it and that made it much better. Easily the best robot I've used. I would have been happy with the gt-503 though. Either one I'd rather have than the s5.
The s series is just really annoying to use robotically or manually after getting used to the sokkias for years and then the Leica, plus using conventional Leica's for a few years also. I miss all the features, like the display with angles, distance, battery level...you can do MLM's without a data collector....shoot vertical differences without a data collector. On and sight something in using the knob without being connected. I feel extremely limited by the s series, on a regular basis.
Don't get me started on the search and joystick. The sokkias and topcons with the RC unit will always find the prism (as long as you point the window on the RC unit the right way), the leica powersearch always finds the prism and you can tell it which way to turn so you waste less time. Trimble only has a good search in integrated mode. I use it that way almost all the time now. I'm always on busy sites with lots of traffic, so you're losing lock a lot no matter which robot you have.
Leica has nothing to do with Trimble. That is a mis-statement.
You didn't read that correctly. Apologies for the long text in brackets but if you read the whole sentence less the bracketed text in the middle it is a correct statement.
Geomax = poor man's Lecia
Spectra = poor man's Trimble
@jerrys Believe it or not I can power the Parani with a run-of-the-mill powerbank off Amazon. Whether it will work in cold weather remains to be seen...
Certain tablets have powerful built-in bluetooth adapters that actually do okay at short range. For longer range you're totally correct (I haven't tested the limits so far).
Much of the other stuff can often be found laying around. Buying new however... the costs definitely mount.
The RC's on their own are hard to find and often cost in the thousands. Sometimes they're part of a prism kit. But I guess the RC unit + prism can be had for relatively reasonable prices compared to radios and prisms for other units.
A topcon isn't inferior to other brands. Do you know how much Leica and Trimble put in their marketing? That has to be paid for.
Very true! And don't let me mistakenly refer to 'cheap' as being inferior. Topcon robotics tend to go for less right now compared to other used robots. Perhaps because they're more numerous, maybe even due to survivor bias, or the fact that some of the other manufacturers are strategically taking their older units out of circulation to try and coax people into buying new...
Part of the reason for researching Topcon was to make sure I have the knowledge to take advantage of a deal should I pull the trigger and buy one, that is after noticing that many Topcon robots go for quite a bit less than other used stuff. Being able to go down multiple routes can be very advantageous.
The screaming deal on a Lecia 1200 looks like buying a Geomax zoom 95 (the same thing) and then use XPAD which is super easy for layout or survPC if you go the Carlson route (Carlson just rebadge the Geomax).
But as always you need a decent dealer for the great nearby!
I think having a dealer nearby is key. Most the used Geomax stuff I've seen costs twice as much as say, a used TPS1200. Those are getting more and more rare though. The Geomax would usually come as a complete setup but for me I kind of prefer doing my own thing.
Regarding the Parani radios, the power supply can be anything that keeps it on. But I don’t think you can get useable range with the stock antenna supplied with the Parani. I found 5 Db gain antennas that give an effective range of several hundreds of feet.
@350rocketmike Did you buy the Parani power pack or a 3rd party external power bank like me? The power pack seemed like a bit of a waste if the former actually works.
I'm leaning towards FieldGenius as well. They used to have just a "layout" version that got discontinued/absorbed into their main product. Their pricing looks the most cut and dry (I can't find concise info on how much Magnet costs). I haven't used Magnet much but it seems pretty good.
I’ve run Trimble S-series robots and Topcon 600 series robots and their both good instruments. Both have their merits and problems. For me, the Trimble instrument was more user friendly but heavier. Also, the Topcon instrument seems to track the prism better. However, Topcon magnet is more user friendly and less glitchy then Trimble access. The Trimble robot is less noisy in operation. Topcon has the better plummet. The only other plummet that I know of that comes even close is Nikon optical plummet.
I used a third party power bank. It fit right in the waterproof baggy I was using to hang the whole setup off the tripod and that power bank was actually overkill and would last a week on battery. The only issue I had was specific to fieldgenius...it would drain the tablet battery fast. Luckily I had 2 extended batteries and it was normally 2 day battery life, but the glitch caused fieldgenius to drain 1.5 batteries in a day. That was part of why we got the radio handle before the next winter came.
I find fieldgenius pretty easy to use. The map would crash frequently but that was probably more to do with the DXF's that I was given than anything. We have a few older subdivisions that we're still finishing up layout and they're 1:1 scale, local coordinates. So on those ones I sometimes still use the Leica and fieldgenius, especially if I'm going to have to use reflectorless.
I prefer the laser plummet on the Leica but yes the optical plummet on the s series is terrible. That large outer ring sometimes blocks the view of the nail. I end up putting a Sharpie dot in the center to make sure I perfectly center. The topcon plummet was fine.
The ix-503 had terrible tracking for me but the search was better than Trimble. The gt-503 we got as a loaner was actually really good though. Both sounded like they were broken because of the noisy ultrasonic motors. When they do fail, you'll know it though. It becomes an obvious grinding noise and the vertical starts acting up. I was told these failures were fixed with a firmware update.
@350rocketmike I recall the Trimble tsc3 data collectors did not handle DXF’s very well. They would sometimes be slow to load the map or parts of the map wouldn’t load at all so I’d have to do the old, pop out the battery for a few seconds, put back in, then reboot everything.
@350rocketmike the first laser plummet I used was on a Topcon and I thought it was very nice to use. Also, I must agree that the search function on the Topcon robot does seem to find the prism a little faster than Trimble s-series. The Trimble 360 prism that comes with the s-series you have to be careful with turning one of the prisms directly at the instrument when setting control or setting the BS. The Topcon triangle 360 prism is ok other than it reads .03’ below the prism measurement. Also, I have to add, the design for the trimble s-series carry case was interesting.
@350rocketmike I recall the Trimble tsc3 data collectors did not handle DXF’s very well. They would sometimes be slow to load the map or parts of the map wouldn’t load at all so I’d have to do the old, pop out the battery for a few seconds, put back in, then reboot everything.
Version was (and is) still key when working with a lot of external formats. The TSC3 worked best with DXF v2007 and v2010, which makes sense since it dropped around ~2011. I didn't see many problems until v2013. Once I switched to blocking out everything in v2007, I never had any problems.
I now use DXF v2010 as the default format since it seems to be stable on all the newer DCs.
We never used DXF's on the tsc3. Only on the tsc7 and tsc5 which we exchanged. Sometimes they won't work at all in access but I can still load it in fieldgenius just for a visual reference. Key in polyline can quickly add enough lines for at least the lot I'm working on.
Sounds like it just needed an update then is all. I also remember the tsc3 had another glitch in stakeout mode, where after you took a shot, it wouldn’t always automatically advance to the next stakeout point. But all I’d have to do was click back one, then forward again to the point I’m staking out to and all was good again.
I think the pointing of the 360 prism goes for all 360 prisms. The Leica even has little yellow arrows to tell you which way to point it.
For me, if I'm using the s5 by itself, search means turning on the guidelights, opening the joystick, then pointing it directly at myself, which I don't really consider a "search". GPS search sometimes works but it's dependent on your surrounding environment, and you have to be a ways away from the robot for it to work.
One thing I wish was different on Topcon magnet, is the ability to export point number ranges. Maybe there is a way though and I just haven’t found it yet.
Sometimes they won't work at all in access
If a DXF isn't working in Access, it's more than likely either not actually v2010 or earlier, or something got jacked up during export. I see a lot of attempts to export out entities from CAD that are simply not DXF-compatible, like alignments, feature lines, MTEXT, COGO points, surfaces, etc.
@350rocketmike I’ve tried a tracker 360 prism with the s-6 and s-7 but never had any luck getting it to work. Also, the tracker prism constant was horrible (+12.0mm if I recall) and was hard to get any precision from it. The only thing good about it was the LED lights were nice for working in the dark, which was rare if I could help it.