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to the centerline of the road..

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ropestretcher
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So we have three surveyors (me included) in the office and four opinions on where the boundary is today.

A survey of property along a township road. The road has no record of width, no dedication, no written easement. It has been there for over 125 years.

The property is on the north side of the pavement and surrounds a subdivision from the 1950's. The sub plat and description call the centerline of the public road as the southerly boundary. The property we are surveying was cut from a larger tract in the 1970's and follows the centerline AS DESCRIBED in the 1950's description and plat. Corners and offsets were set in the 1970's survey. According to the 1970's plat (and the 1950's sub plat) the boundary falls on the centerline of the pavement. Both earlier surveys were done by the same surveyor.

Today, we find some of the northern boundary corners and even a few of the offset points that were set northerly of the paved road beck in the 1970's. Everything fits very well. Except that is, the pavement itself. The road was repaved last fall and we cant find any of the 1970's points that were set in the pavement back then. Most of the centerline of the current paved road falls withing a foot or so of the location shown on the 1970's plat. I don't have a problem resetting the points at the deed locations where they differ from today's centerline by a foot or so. This road winds a bit and has been paved many times over the years.

On the western end of the property, the centerline differs by around ten feet. That is, the road is now around ten feet closer to the offset pins we found from the 1970's survey.

Adjoiners call to the centerline of road as well.

We don't know if there was a gradual shift of this end of the road over the years or if it took place in one event. The latest paving job doesn't show indications of earthwork so I can only presume this latest job was an overlay and not a re-alignment.

One of the guys here says the boundary doesn't change from where is was created, and surveyed (that is a particular sticking point to him) back in the 1970's.
I'm not sure myself.
If the road change was gradual, does the boundary move with the road? Does centerline of road mean the pavement or the centerline of the corridor that is used to maintain said road?

What if there was no survey from the 1970's, or even 1950's for that matter, and today's location of the road is all we have? Do we throw out the distances and hold the road?


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 10:12 am
paul-d
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My initial reaction is that the boundary was intended to be the cl of the road, that is the row, not the traveled way, and that the existing cl at the time was used as the best evidence of the cl of the row. If this is the case the line would not move, the road isn't a stream. Now, if you were starting from scratch and attempting to establish the cl of the row today the line would likely be different.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 10:19 am
Frank Shelton
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by "Township road", do you mean a road that follows a township line? if so then my SOP is to locate the boundary, since that is what actually holds, and the road is just where it is as a probable prescirptive easement in your case.

most of our county roads run along old patent lines, and many of the adjoining deeds call for the center of the road, but research, case law, and common sense takes the boundary to the patent line and not the center of a manmade movable object.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 10:23 am
imaudigger
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It would not surprise me if there wasn't actually more information about the road you are surveying than you have uncovered.

I would suggest researching the codes and statutes of your state for that time period. There probably is a section titled "Highways". This section will describe the legal process and responsibilities of the County Supervisors or Commissioners in regards to dedicating public highways, collecting road taxes and maintenance of the roads.

In California, there was a very distinct process in which the early roads were dedicated. The only evidence of this process is usually found in the Board minutes or the viewers reports. This information is overlooked by many, including the title companies.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:01 am
ropestretcher
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Township road in this case refers to a rural road that falls under maintenance of the township. This road is a meander of sorts that was a convenient location between the river and shipping canal.
Yes, we have a lot of roads that run along section lines and the boundary goes to the section lines, not the road. Usually.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:10 am

Perry Williams
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I would guess that.....

A road is not a river. The boundary falls along the centerline of the road asit existed when the original deed description was written.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:11 am
a-harris
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I give the earliest known description for the road the most weight as the boundary.

It rarely follows today' centerline of pavement or as graded location.

Mostly it will follow the best path between the banks of the roadway.

I don't approve of the county having the ability to change boundaries every time it does maintenance on a roadway.

0.02


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:25 am
Thomas Smith
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I would treat it the same as any other boundary. Show it as it was originally laid out and described. Anything else would be changing the boundary.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:31 am
ropestretcher
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We did have viewers and commissions for the roads but the availability of records varies greatly by county. We have roads now that are perpetuations of old wagon trails that existed long before the PLSS came through. No records of them, they just continue to be used and maintained by the public.
Most of the roads that are "of record" were arterial roads, ie; the needed road to go from this town to that church to the mill, to the next town, etc.
Even these roads, while they still may have a specific width called for, were still not fee simple roads, merely easements. Note, the words "right-of-way" or "easement" were never mentioned in the road dedications. Heck, even the word "dedicated" didn't mean the adjoining landowners gave up any real property for the public road.
Usually, when improvements are being done to these roads, in modern times, the county will purchase new right-of-way and the old right-of-way (easement) as a way to clear up title. Of course this is only done when additional width is needed.
Rural subdivisions will dedicate right-of-way which also clears title.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 11:41 am
imaudigger
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1874 road and bridges chapter 121

Page 927
Section 89 Order to Alter, Widen or Lay Out Road - Plat-Filing Papers-Recording This is where the Commissioners are required to file/record the survey plat, description, approval, ect. There is no mention of width, but I would bet you will find that they did include the width in the description because of the damages inflicted on the land owners. It goes so far as to require the Clerk to establish a specific book just for the establishment of public roads. I suppose court houses burn down and there are floods, ect.

What I found interesting is that the information was to be filed/recorded with the town rather than the county.

There is a specific section pertaining to township roads. It appears that the petition/survey/plat/order had to be filed/recorded at both of the affected townships.

--------------------
This language is very similar to what we see in California in 1880.
In my county, the original copy of these records is kept in the road department in what is called a Viewers Report. If you were to go to the Clerks office or the Recorders office and ask for these records, you would get a blank stare.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 12:09 pm

MightyMoe
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For a quick check that goes back 20+ years do the time thing on Google, I've been shocked a few times by how far roads and fences have moved since 1990. Then if you can get older photos, might tell you something.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 12:19 pm
imaudigger
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Even these roads, while they still may have a specific width called for, were still not fee simple roads, merely easements. Note, the words "right-of-way" or "easement" were never mentioned in the road dedications. Heck, even the word "dedicated" didn't mean the adjoining landowners gave up any real property for the public road.

What I find interesting is that affected land "owners" could protest and request financial compensation for damages sustained by reason of establishment of the road. This compensation was usually in the form of gold coin and came from the public highway/bridge maintenance fund. In my area, this compensation extended to un-patented mining claims on public domain!

There has to be a lot of case law pertaining to the status of this type of dedication. I believe most counties in Calif. claim a prescriptive easement and get by without having to go to court.


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 12:22 pm
imaudigger
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Sorry getting off in a tangent here....back to the 1950's


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 12:29 pm
Pablo
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Was there any acceptance in the plats by the government entity having jurisdiction?
I would say the boundary does not change from where it was created i.e. first surveyed and platted. If the road changes graudally it does not move the boundary, it is not like a river accretion or relictition. If there was no survey from the 50's or 70's, I would survey the existing asbuilt center of pavement and create the necessary documents to create the boundary. I have surveyed unsurveyed existing roads in a few different states and there are different ways to create and establish the centerline to be utilized from that point thereon. It usually incorporates a record with verbage and acceptance from the negotiations with the governmental agency having the jurisdiction over the area.

Pablo B-)


 
Posted : January 14, 2014 2:46 pm