The fence builders cometh

I've been running some ads for a few months, and making an effort to answer the phone. The thing I find astounding is how many calls I get from people who are "thinking about buying" a parcel, who need a survey to inform that decision, yet have no intent of paying in advance, or if the answer doesn't suit them, at all.

I tell them it's 100% in advance if they don't own the property. So far this means 100% never call back. What do you do? If we as a profession want to encourage people to get parcels surveyed before purchase, where is the enticement?

When someone calls for an estimate, I give them a number to place in their budget.
No one ever orders a survey until their loan is funded and they have less than 30 days to close.

half bubble, post: 446081, member: 175 wrote: I tell them it's 100% in advance if they don't own the property. So far this means 100% never call back. What do you do ?

I use the same payment schedule as for anyone else, 1/3 deposit and the remaining balance at time of releasing the maps. The way I see it is that if someone is going to burn you, they'll do it whether or not they own the property. They're under a signed contract in either case. Usually people have to have some particular significant concern to get a survey done during escrow, but many do as property is expensive here.

A huge part of the problem in today's world of instant gratification (if you have a smartphone in your possession) is that those who know nothing assume that you already know everything they want to know and will provide that information for free.

It would make more sense for the seller to order the survey. Then they could bump up their price by the cost and be able to show it to ANY potential buyer.

half bubble, post: 446081, member: 175 wrote: If we as a profession want to encourage people to get parcels surveyed before purchase, where is the enticement?

Perhaps have them talk to a certain person in Harmonyville, PA.

Seriously, every month or 2 some member of the general public posts a question to this board along the same lines. "I bought this place and now I've found that there are serious boundary issues that are going to cost big bucks." If one collected these stories from this board before long you would have a half dozen different ones to tell a client. Might help.

One of the great things about being in this business for years is that you soon accumulate a nice collection of such stories that are very local to your potential project. One of mine involves a couple doing their own little survey to split a tract around the house to mortgage it separately from the remainder of the original 80-acre tract. It turned out they measured from the corner post about 30 feet south of the road center line but then wrote the description as starting on the section line (essentially the same as road center line). A few years later they divorced and the wife keeps the house and the husband gets the 77 acres of pasture land. A few years after that the wife goes to sell the house and we discover half of a building on the ex-husband's land. This only came to light because the house buyer needed a Mortgagee Title Inspection for their lender. Otherwise they would have purchased half of a $20,000 building that they thought was entirely on the tract they were buying. Fortunately for everyone involved, the former spouses were friendly and were able to clear up the issue once we did a real survey to create a tract that made everyone happy.

I think we as a profession forget that purchasing land is for most folks the single most expensive investment that they will make. For many another $1000 spent on a survey is too much because it isn't required. Origination fees and title insurance fees and Appraisal fees are too high as well but a necessary evil. Kinda like $20 aspirin at the hospital. The reason they price shop for the cheapest is we haven't proven our worth to them

I would contend that they do not understand the worth. That's a half of my conversation with potential clients. You need this because.....

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What they want to do and what they can afford to do are quite often very different things. Therein lies much of the problem.

half bubble, post: 446081, member: 175 wrote: I've been running some ads for a few months, and making an effort to answer the phone. The thing I find astounding is how many calls I get from people who are "thinking about buying" a parcel, who need a survey to inform that decision, yet have no intent of paying in advance, or if the answer doesn't suit them, at all.

I tell them it's 100% in advance if they don't own the property. So far this means 100% never call back. What do you do? If we as a profession want to encourage people to get parcels surveyed before purchase, where is the enticement?

I had one where the buyer has engaged a wickedly expensive architect who asked for a 12 or 14 year old CAD drawing. I have them a figure to update to NAVD, clean to current standards and ship out. The realtor said they were not interested in spending money and would just take the PDF. We provided it as it is public record anyhow.

I know the architect would be getting a big figure for concepts. Why would I assume liability for releasing CAD without compensation?

Bill93, post: 446127, member: 87 wrote: It would make more sense for the seller to order the survey. Then they could bump up their price by the cost and be able to show it to ANY potential buyer.

Bill what you said makes way to much sense

I live in a area of 20 acre parcels semi desert and i can quad to most PL corners
and walk the perimeter after localize of screen PL line work
and then push in pin flags at 100 foot intervals on PL in about 5 hours in semi open firs and sage.

90 % of the people here don't know there property lines within 100 Ft ?????!!!!!!!!!

Consequently on every neighbor lot there is a very expensive screw up when i quad over and
flag PL a nice quad down the local road and i usually get 500.00 folding and a couple beers

1 lot owner put his d way on the adjacent lot
2 lot owner put a 20 k deep well on adjacent lot
3 lot owner put a garage on the adjacent lot
4 lot owner drills for water well thru a 24 inch oil line shut it down for 2 days some one got a 1 million dollar bill
he should of had PL and RW flagged thank god it did not catch on fire and burn the neighbor hood down
5 Every owner thinks a 60 year old fence is PL
6 lot owner finds his septic field on adjacent lot and is after realtor for damages
7 Lot owners wife buys lot while hubby out of town thinking the nice field next door is part its not = divorce follows
8 ?
9 ?
....
I can't but think man cheap and stupid = waste

I can't wait for PL flag Number 8 keep you all posted

Holy Cow, post: 446136, member: 50 wrote: What they want to do and what they can afford to do are quite often very different things. Therein lies much of the problem.

The is also what they are willing to spend. I realize I am in a small town and realistically understand what people can afford. But another problem, is people that have the means, but want to tell you how much they will pay you.
If I had a penny for how many times I have heard "that sounds high"? Compared to what? Then, I go on a lengthy lecture about surveying, when I should save my breath and tell them to call the next number in the Google search. In reality, they may find someone to do it for $200 bucks or whatever the realtor told them. But sometimes, they call me back because I was the only one willing to take time to explain things. Rant off. Got to watch the game.

Had to deal with a couple who are both retired school teachers in their 80's. They want to split their 120 into three 40's, then cut two 5-acre tracts out of one of the 40's. Recovering evidence at the center of section is not going to happen without completely draining a large floodwater detention dam. There is no record of anything being set there by a surveyor anyway, so a standard section breakdown will be required. One section corner is known to exist but is roughly 18 inches deep in a fairly high traffic rural road. The remainder of the section control will be halfway simple. Still, anything over about $500 is more than they will have on hand until about January. It's an all-in-the-family deal where they are dishing out the 40's to three daughters while temporarily hanging onto one 5-acre tract and allowing the sale of the other 5-acre tract so that daughter can afford to place a doublewide on the remaining 30 acres.

They are really nice people simply wanting to take care of business fairly among their three daughters while they are still on the right side of the grass, as they say. But, they do not have the funds available to pay for the survey. Maybe I should start a GoFundMe account on their behalf.

Cut out another 5 acres for your fee.

Dave Lindell, post: 446264, member: 55 wrote: Cut out another 5 acres for your fee.

That is an equitable solution and I have offered it a few times.....with no takers yet but a few have seriously considered it.

For me, it's always 20% up front before I put you on the work list. Then payment in full, no excuses or exceptions, prior to a corner being set or a map being issued. I've not had anyone complain about my policy yet. If they do complain, then chances are it's because they didn't intend to pay anyway, in my mind. But I also don't do much of my own work, and I VERY rarely leave my home town for work. Most people in town get my name from word of mouth so they trust me and I've not let anyone down yet.

Half up front, when I did my own work. It weeded out the shoppers from the buyers.

Just A. Surveyor, post: 446282, member: 12855 wrote: That is an equitable solution and I have offered it a few times.....with no takers yet but a few have seriously considered it.

Would this not be working on a contingency basis? This is not legal in where I am. Just asking, not throwing stones.

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