I need advice on how folks number stations/points in projects. I've spent a lot of time confusing myself going back to projects I've started; adding more points, using point numbers I've already used, renumbering points, etc.
I know that in the total station I'm using, if you start with a number, and sequentially take additional measurements, it increments either the measurement number or the point number from whatever number you start with (haven't figured out which yet).
So what's the best system? Start with 1 on every project? 0001? Letters and Numbers?
Confused.
> I need advice on how folks number stations/points in projects. I've spent a lot of time confusing myself going back to projects I've started; adding more points, using point numbers I've already used, renumbering points, etc.
>
> I know that in the total station I'm using, if you start with a number, and sequentially take additional measurements, it increments either the measurement number or the point number from whatever number you start with (haven't figured out which yet).
>
> So what's the best system? Start with 1 on every project? 0001? Letters and Numbers?
> Confused.
The system I use is to reserve a whole series of numbers (say 1-100 for most small projects) for control points and begin numbering boundary markers located off the basic control network by some higher series such as 200 up.
Are your ground marks highly frost resistant? That is, is there a good expectation that they will be in exactly the same positions next Spring?
From a construction standpoint, I like alphanumeric for control and design.
Example: set up at CP1, backsight CP2, check shot at CP3, stake out G4, a design point of the intersection of gridline G and gridline 4. It makes it easy to understand for everyone. If using only numeric option, keeping design numbers low help the field guys. Example: points 1-2, line 1-2.
For the topo / as-built, a trick that works well is first digit crew ID (up to 9), next three digits julian day, next 3 digits sequencing of points. Yes, the point names are long, however, they are unique, to me it's less of an headache then the issue of "point already exists", especially when dealing with earthworks projects with multiple crews.
Example Crew 2 and crew 4, Julian day 305, topo of quarry:
2305001-2305299 (crew 2)
4305001-4305588 (crew 4)
> Are your ground marks highly frost resistant? That is, is there a good expectation that they will be in exactly the same positions next Spring?
I can always count on you, Kent, to answer questions with questions!
For my practice traverses, I've mostly used feathers held with 4" ledger screws with a torx shaped dimple in the top of them that measures about 3mm across. They appear to be solid in hardback drives, but not solid at all in the woods. I'm not planning on "memorializing" any of my work, but the thought has crossed my mind to come up with something that could withstand a few seasons of frost in very soft, leaf covered earth, given that this project is clearly becoming "multi-seasonal".
Or, I can always run the same traverses again in the spring and, using identical settings in starnet, see how much they moved
I try to keep my control point numbers under 1000 and incremented by either 5 or 10; I tend to work on rather large projects. For what it's worth, I number topo points are 1000 and above, sometimes I'll place them at 10000 or 20000 just so I can easily separate conventional and GPS-derived data, respectively.
I much prefer spacing of either 5 or 10 to start with because more often than not I will need to add one or more points in-between, or set a new one if a control point gets wiped out.
It works for me.
Depending on the size of the project, I reserve points 1-200 for calculations, and start data collecting with 201 up. Larger job, 1-400 and 401. That system has worked very well for me.
> So what's the best system? Start with 1 on every project? 0001? Letters and Numbers?
Here is a system that works well for traversing.
Number your traverse stations - the ones that are part of your closed loops - by tens. eg/ 10, 20, 30, etc. Then number side ties from Station 10 by ones - 11, 12, 13, etc. Number side ties from station 20 by ones - 21, 22, 23, etc. And so on. Rarely will you have more than 9 side ties from a traverse station.
As I say, this system works well when traversing. It doesn't work so well when radial RTK'ing.
The best system is the one that works best for the user. I prefer numbering control that is part of my loop 1-100, sideshots 101-499 and comp points 1000 and up. If its a large job I just add to the range but rarely do I have one that I have to increase the point ranges. In the end, my loop will be 1, 2, 3, 4.... etc. Just easy on my cluttered mind.
Wow... a lot more varying responses that I would have thought.
#1: If you want to have points usable for the next few season, start by using 60D nails.
#2: I generally do some calculating in my office before I hit the field (so I can stake-out to hard to find corners if need be), so I use whatever numbers I need for that. I'll calculate one plat starting at 1 and number all the points that I need for that plat. Then if I have to add an adjoining plat to those calc's I'll jump up to 11 or 21 or whatever to differentiate... something ending in a 1 (because you don't start a project at point 0 (zero). If you've ever had to renumber a project, you appreciate not having to add or subtract a 1.
#3: Then I jump up about 20 points or so and figure out a number to start my control/station/traverse points (about 90% of my jobs the first setup point is #51). I'll use #50 as my backsight point and 52 is my next traverse point. I then keep all the traverse numbers in sequence. About 90% of my jobs have less than 10 traverse stations also.
#4: Then I jump up to #61 (or whatever, 71, 81, etc.) for all my sideshots (corners, house corners, sidewalks, gravel, watermeters, everything)
So my typical setup raw will look like:
51-52-74 50.40300 91.4530 101.0101 RF
(backsight 51, setup at 52, sideshot to 74, 50°40'30" Horiz Angle, 91°45'30" Zenith Angle, 101.0101 slope distance, RF for Rod Found (in Field To Finish))
Wow, some of the numbering schemes seem complicated for a small outfit like mine.
I usually have some calculated points in the data collector prior to heading out to the field. If it is a small job, I will generally have my calculated point in the 500 range. If it is a larger job, they generally are in the 5000 range.
I start my points for field collection at 1, backsight 2, and start from there. I just keep my points in consecutive order, and keep a fieldbook with traverse points, what range of points are collected from each setup, etc.
For traverse points in most jobs, I use the ChrisNik 6" mag hubs with the dimple in the top. They are pretty reasonable costwise, and they are stable enough for the vast majority of the jobs I work on. Anything that requires a more permanent control point I use a 1/2" rebar, 18 inches long, and a plastic traverse point cap.
I am a small solo shop so this works for me.
> > So what's the best system? Start with 1 on every project? 0001? Letters and Numbers?
> Here is a system that works well for traversing.
>
> Number your traverse stations - the ones that are part of your closed loops - by tens. eg/ 10, 20, 30, etc. Then number side ties from Station 10 by ones - 11, 12, 13, etc. Number side ties from station 20 by ones - 21, 22, 23, etc. And so on. Rarely will you have more than 9 side ties from a traverse station.
>
As Carl B said ("Wow... a lot more varying responses that I would have thought.")...I agree. I guess there is no "right" way to do it.
But I sure like this one for my current purposes...especially the fact that side ties are similarly numbered with the "tens" digit. If I need to go back and add some, I have "room" in the numbering system. If I ever figure out how to program Back Sights, Side Shots and Forward Sights in the TS (I'm not using a data collector), this will work well if I take multiple shots from one location.
Thanks for the tips on the point marking hardware too.
I use 1000, 2000, 3000, etc. for my base points. 1-100 for search points, 100 plus the search point number for a found point, 200-500 for topog shots, 500-600 for roads, 700-800 for whatever. Makes it easy to turn them on and off in my CAD to clear up the drawing when I draft.
Invisible points
Or you could be like me and never learn. If I need temporary points for reflectorless so I can shoot some building corners I use a black marker on a white parking stripe. A week later when I unexpectedly have to go back they are now invisible because I was too cheap to set a PK nail, and that's when I swear at myself.
Invisible points
Use a black concrete nail. 🙂
Here is my system, I start at one and go up....no need to worry about numbers as one number is just as good as the next. I have tried various schemes through the years and I just find that most of it is unnecessary.
I give everything except toposhots a unique designator consisting of the 5 digit job number followed by letters and optionally numbers. Since the dc can increment by either numbers or letters, it really isn't any extra typing.
Depending on job type, GPS points might be single letter after the job number, then a second letter for traverse points off of the GPS, etc. This system always keeps point numbers under 8 characters. And NSRS stations always get the PID.
And, antime I REOCCUPY a point, it gets the same number, even if from a different job. That way it is very easy to merge jobs together. I seem to be unique in the unique point number idea.
9000 to start.
Start at 9100 if I have to go back for Extra Detail/Extension.
9200 if I have to go back for moreextra detail/Extension.
9500 for Setout control (as you always need to replace or put in new benchmarks)
9900 for As/Con at the end of the job (Or Easements, Road Resumptions etc)
PSMs use their own unique (normally 6 digit) number.
I like alpha/numeric:
I worked on a huge job in 1991; 29 miles of a major highway; a right-of-way and base map, 1,000' wide; 2,000' wide at 6 major interchanges, for 2,000' centered on the interchange. Most of the time we had 4-4 man crews working for about 8 months.
We were supplied with 3 pairs (6 points) of GPS control; start, middle and end; all the rest was ground run conventional traverse and level loops, to establish horizontal and vertical dontrol. They flew the job too, but about 2/3's of it was thick brush, under canopy.
The job number was 1895 so the backbone control was 1895-1 through 1895-47. When a traverse loop was run from the main traverse; it was 1-1 to whatever you had to go, usually less than 10 points. If there was more than one it was started with 1-11, 1-21, 1-31.
We set random hubs 100+/- feet apart between the mile posts. they were numbered 16.1 through 16.52 for the first mile (between mile post 16 and mile post 17) and the same for the rest of the miles. These were generally tied with a single shot to a prism pole.
These points were occupied; we clapped a 90 and took off through the woods for 500' on a random line taking random topo shots. These were generally numbered, based on the hub number you started at. So if you sat on 16.1 you would start your runnung numbers with 160101.
It was a little more complicated than this, but you get the general idea. It was very easy to tell were you were on the job; just by looking at the point ID.
Feel free to ask me any questions you might have: While this was the biggest job I ever worked on; I worked on several other jobs that used the same numbering scheme; as it worked quite well.
I usually just start at 1 and go up. I differentiate my points by the layers that I put them on, by field to finish on a larger job, or if it's a small job, I will draw/locate points on PNTS (for conventional), PNTS-RTK (for rtk), PNTS-GPS (for post processed static), etc.
If I'm using a previous job control file, I will start the new numbers at something even and larger than the previous job, like 1001 or so.
I prefer to manage my points through the cadd layers instead of a numbering scheme. It's just one less thing to keep up with, but it boils down to what works best 4 U.
My system is also alphanumeric. We have projects of all sizes and duration, from one day single crew topos to design/construction jobs that have multiple crews on them over several years. This requires a system that has a lot of flexibility for merging point files etc.
All points surveyed in the field are identified by date, party chief initials and whatever numbers that the field crew chooses to use. For example a topo file might come in with:
141030DB_15
141030DB_16
141031DB-17
141031DB-18
etc..
At a glance I can read the date each point was shot, who did it, and in what sequence.
