@nate-the-surveyor How did the 3rd shot fit?
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I wish my area had that many holes in the trees for our units!
Max shot spread was 0.10'.
It's a section corner. The top of the monument was displaced about 0.50' out of plumb, by the tree. But, that's an estimate. It was an Arkansas Geological Commission monument. Set by my dad. Late 1980's or so. I can post a screen shot later, when I'm at the office.
Nate
It is all about the checks available real time to give you a warm fuzzy feeling about a shot.?ÿ There is a ton of information available on the Javad screen to allow you to decide whether you should stay there longer and accept and move on.?ÿ ?ÿIt can also be set to run automatically per set parameters such as wide open, mid canopy, heavy canopy.?ÿ I prefer to keep a close eye on the screen generally because each shot is a little unique.?ÿ Having the screen and head all as one unit is a monstrously huge advantage when going through the brush.?ÿ I've cussed a blue streak in the past with a 2 meter rod and an attached clunky data collector snagging on every little branch and vine.?ÿ Now I can collapse my rod in 4 seconds to 18", tuck the whole kit and caboodle under my arm, and crawl down every little deer trail and rabbit path in the state with no fuss.?ÿ Until you have experienced that freedom of movement, you've not lived.?ÿ I feel like a fire and brimstone preacher on that particular subject.?ÿ Lean and fast.?ÿ Because everything I need to carry around is so easy to haul, my solo surveying career can go much longer into old age than if I had to haul a tripod, rod, gun, and data collector and walk the traverse line 5 times just to carry assumed coordinates around a property.
?ÿ ?ÿAll of the information available to the average user is a lot to wrap your head around, and probably a lot to teach to field crews but easy to use once you catch on.?ÿ That may be why there isn't one in every office.?ÿ My buddy just bought his first zero turn mower this week, having never been on one before.?ÿ They are fantastic mowers but don't drive at all like anything else.?ÿ He is jerking around his yard, going left when he thought he should be going right and completely unable to go in a straight line.?ÿ Have you ever watched someone for the first time on a zero turn.?ÿ Its funny.?ÿ Javad is a lot like that.?ÿ Not at all like anything else, but it can be learned without too much trouble and then you can zip around your project incredibly fast.
Hey Tom,
Great review but your forgot about the J-tip metal locator that sits in my vest pocket.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
Here are the 3 Screen Shots associated with the above Section Corner.
There first one finished with 3-2 minute RTPK shots.
The second one, finished with RTK, and So did the 3rd Shot.
Point number is 1830A is the WEIGHTED average of the 3 shots.
This section corner leans EAST about, 0.50', by my GUESS, as the big PINE has grown, and displaced the monument.
Here is a screen shot in Carlson/Acad, so you can see them.
In the above3 screen shots, (taken from the Javad LS) you can see alot of information is shown, such as DISTANCE to last, (Green Highlighted buttons, on 2nd and 3rd shots) and it shows a HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL graphic, showing what is going on, for later review, if it is desired.
I know some of you might not be interested in DETAILS, but I am a creature of detail, and I like it.
Nate
Those numbers in GREEN represent the SIZE of the LEFT box,?ÿ and the SIZE of the right box, as shown directly above their green box. So, that BOX on the left (horizontal) is 0.207 square, and the right hand box (vertical distribution) is 0.308 square. This is why the AVERAGE coord it made, 1830A is very close to the RTPK position, as the RTPK coord BOX is not shown. Only the RTK one is.
I want the Javad LS to SHOW the RTPK box, when that is the coord used. But, it is not that way for now.
In the LEFT pane, you see a small box in the middle. This is the RTK coord, relative to the scatter plot. The red * is the RTPK coord.
In the RIGHT (Vertical) pane, you see a finer black line. This is RTK. Then, a fatter red line. This is the RTPK elev. Scatter plot.
If you look directly above those Panes, (Look at the last or 3rd screen shot) you see RTPK FIX (3): 0.020, -0.058, -0.135
This means, from the RTK little box, to the RTPK * observation, it is 0.020 NORTH, -0.058 WEST, and -0.135 DOWN to the RTPK coordinate. When you look at the horiz and vert panes, you can see this graphically.
The graphic is showing the outliers, to caution you, that if it's critical, to observe multiple times.
This warns you to do it multiple times, to develop more certainty.
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Nate
@nate-the-surveyor that is pretty neat.
After running this system for over 5 yrs. I'm persuaded that as more of these get into common use, that overall quality of surveying is impacted. And, that there is an overall improvement in quality of work. Both in terms of more accuracy, but in more monuments per day tied, so that good work gets better.
It's a tool. In the right hands, only good comes from it.?ÿ
Overall, it's been good.
Nate
@nate-the-surveyor Thanks for the explanation of the entire screen Nate.?ÿ That is one VERY busy screen.?ÿ Probably takes a minute or two to get used to that display.
My Nate surveying version: Went out last Friday to stake line through the timber, looking at the photo there is a pickup that fencers are using uphill from a corner I set. From there the line goes up the hill just skirting the small open park and also heads off to the right of the pickup along a tree and brush covered ravine until it breaks out into scattered timber. The R10 handled it all, took some time for some shots, I averaged about 120' per line point.?ÿ
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@mightymoe Beautiful scenery to look at.?ÿ But if that is not a little matchbox truck in the lower left corner, then the scale tells me I'm not interested in hiking up that!
The line stairsteps up the mountain and turns above the photo limits down into a canyon to the left then through the timber for a mile down the mountain. I staked that a couple of years ago and I was in really good shape, I need to get back to before Covid condition. Last week in the 90-100 degree heat was a chore hiking up that mountain.?ÿ
@mightymoe I live on the west side of Kentucky and travel to the eastern side occasionally to present a seminar.?ÿ When I go to places like London, KY, and mention the size of the mountains (compared with where I live), they pick at me about those being hills and I need to keep going east to see a real mountain.
Of course they may not fully appreciate that there may be about 500 feet difference from the highest to lowest point in the entire county where I mainly work.?ÿ Probably a rare occurrence for me to have a couple hundred feet elevation change on any one job.
This is a Javad "Beer Leg". It's a TRIPLE beer leg. 3 trees, in close proximity. This is all the SAME point, different camera angles.
I shot this one 3 times. Because satellite geometry was kinda poor. I was on this one about 15 Minutes. And, got 3 shots.
Remember, these are JAVAD shots, which consist of MANY resets, and many double checks. I could have HELD only one shot, but, being the pedantic creature that I am, well, get it 3x. Adding a little time, to nail it down super duper seems like the "Thing to do". I think it's a leftover habit, from years ago, using the Topcon system. On this particular point, I had some "JUMP FAILS". this means that as it accumulates statistical strength, it decides that "Something is not quite right", and it jumps back to PHASE 1, to be SURE that it has the right init. Point.
This is what a Jump Fail leaves behind. A screen shot, so you can see it later. As it turns out, this was a FALSE jump fail, as it, the coord was ok, or close to the right place, but had enough evidence to "Be suspicious of itself", and go back to phase one.
Also, the first 2 shots had RTPK in agreement by 0.05' with the RTK. So, in a sort of way, it can be averaged as 5 shots.
It is the South 1/4 corner of section 6. We had tied this some 30 yrs ago, but it had been mangled and bent since then. So, we placed a 3/4" Pipe over the bent rebar, (After straightening it) and drove it down.
Thanks for reviewing my "Javad Fun" thread.
N
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Nate, I see what I guess is your profile "Canopy Nate" in the upper right. Did you start from the standard "Boundary" profile and tweak it to your liking??ÿ
John
Nate, I see what I guess is your profile "Canopy Nate" in the upper right. Did you start from the standard "Boundary" profile and tweak it to your liking??ÿ
John
Yes. Occasionally, when shooting bldg roof corners, I set it to 10 second delay to start, and poke it up to the roof corner, and usually I get what I need in about 15 to 20 seconds, unless I'm in dense woods.
It's verification processes are still being worked out. Minor changes, mostly these days.
There is a variety counter in it. This simply looks at the data, in a variety of ways, and in some dark holes, it's done in 30 seconds, or even less. Of course, that's got a larger than average error possibility, but who cares, when shooting creek bottoms, and the like. By larger, I mean 0.15' or .20', when if you want it tighter, you have to give it more time.
It's like rough measuring, to a quarter of a foot.
Have you got a javad, or access to one?
Nate
Nate, is thaat the LS or the LS+? And if it is the LS+, have ou seen quicker/better fixes?
I really like how it has multiple engines and RTPK. As someone else posted, redundency, redundency. It really is the key (in my opinion) to quality surveying. You need that confidence and repeatibility.?ÿ
Mine is LS+. LS is regular is great. LS+ is 25% faster, to get to full verify.?ÿ
But, the radio has to work harder, with the LS+ due to the increase in data.
If possible, go cellular. Full data.
I've cut radio to a 2 second duty cycle, and it looses a little speed on the really hard places due to it.
Nate
Have you got a javad, or access to one?
Nate
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Nate, I do have an LS. Been a user for several years and always looking to improve. I'm not at the same level of competency as other experienced users.?ÿ I am still working on having confidence of difficult shots in canopy and knowing I collected what I need.?ÿ
John?ÿ
My opinion is that the "Big Three", are not promoting Javad, because they do not make a profit from selling other's equipment, AND have nothing to gain, by telling their clientele that some other brand may serve their purposes better.
The larger manufacturers produce and sell an entire suite of terrestrial geospatial equipment - not just GNSS receivers - plus field and office software packages, designed for fast transfer of all types of data between office and field and consolidation of a multitude of data from many different sources for processing, analysis and production.
It's a full-service package deal, in other words, and verges on a turnkey solution. Most geospatial firms, especially mid- to large-size shops, need as much standardization as they can get. Mixing and matching gear can be a headache even for an expert or power user.
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I'm sure Javad is fantastic if you rarely need to work with a total station or a level, or if you don't have multiple crews in the field who might not have the background technical expertise to use the advanced features of the Javad gear.
This and familiarity.?ÿ People who have used hardware in an ecosystem for 10+ years (ie. Trimble, Leica, Carlson, etc.) are sometimes fiercely loyal because:
1. it's like "muscle memory" (ie. they can focus on the job rather than the equipment)
2. "I've always done it this way"
3. change is scary
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I'm not saying I agree with that (ie. I am, for the most part, hardware and software agnostic), but there is a not-insignificant training period when switching ecosystems.?ÿ Some can easily switch between them; others cannot.?ÿ I, personally, find switching hardware (ie. field gear) easier than software (ie. grading things without featurelines is much more of a PITD for me).?ÿ That being said, one has to weigh it all against $$$ and one's goals.
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I would love to try a Javad but I have never, in all my years of attending the AOLS AGM's, seen a Javad rep here in Ontario.?ÿ From Javad's website, Dasco is my nearest dealer (and the only one in Ontario).?ÿ Their website does not even state that they sell Javad.?ÿ?ÿ
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But that's typical for us north of the border.?ÿ Trimble does not even sell the AT360 prism up here.?ÿ It's MT1000, VX&S, or bust.