I have been out having fun with my Javad. This is a 1/4 Corner, on a Range Line. The big oak is directly south of the 3/4" Conduit. It's about 0.2' from the tree to the back of the LS.
?ÿ
MANY modern GPS Units can gain a FIXED solution, on places like this. The question is, "IS IT RIGHT?". Well, if you can take enough shots, you can SEPARATE the good data from the bad. You can do this, MANUALLY, with most modern GPS units. As soon as it gains a fix, save it, and repeat. IF you do this for long enough, you can eventually gain a statistical solution. With some fixes within a prescribed value, and some outside. The amount of time needed to weed out the BAD data, and the salvage the GOOD data varies. In BAD places, it can take over an hour. In reasonable places, it can take just a few minutes.
?ÿ
I shot this one twice. About 15 Minutes total. Javad has automated the process of gaining enough Statistical data, to separate the GOOD data, from the BAD data. So, one shot, is equal to several hundred shots, and an analysis of that data, for each shot.
?ÿ
Phase one, is gain a fix, and save it temporary. Repeat, until it gets 15 fixes inside a 0.15' diameter circle.
Phase two, is Collect all data within the above circle, (This refines the location in the circle).
Phase 3, is to double check the overall location of the above 0.15' diameter circle. (It's a kind of repeated phase 1, but includes more data).
So, one typical shot, is a combination of a number of different kinds of fixes, with one, two, three, or four engines.?ÿ
From all this data, the overall statistical data results in 1:10,000 that the REAL coordinate will be within that 0.15' circle. IF you repeat this, you can tighten it down, to less than 0.05'.
In very bad locations, one shot in 10,000 will be outside this circle, usually, it is off by around 1/2 a foot, or less. So, if a point is critical, I will shoot them 2x or 3x. IF shot spread is too large, then go for 4x or 5x.
I have found it easier to sit around waiting for my Javad, than to run traverses. Besides, it gives the ticks opportunity to bite me.
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿI've taken shots with my Javad gear like Nate has pictured and I often wonder why we don't see more of them myself.?ÿ I wear Wrangler jeans, the same model I've been wearing for decades.?ÿ A lot of other people wear the same style also, very popular.?ÿ There might be a better pair of jeans out there but I don't know about them and I'm comfortable wearing what I know.?ÿ It's hard to break an institutional mindset.?ÿ The fact of the matter is that almost all of the GNSS gear out there is the product of Javad Ashjee at least from the outset.?ÿ He started Trimble out, Topcon, Ashtech, and perhaps some more; I can't remember his whole bio.?ÿ The gear he has created is in my opinion, a shining example of the best technology available and continuing to improve.?ÿ For what it does and if everyone were aware of what it does, the price point should be much higher.
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ My surveying life has been absolutely revolutionized and I feel very confident in my shots and staking.?ÿ This is a quote from another Javad user I know that is one of the finest, most detail oriented, surveyors I know.?ÿ "It is just SICK how much we can get done!"
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿGod bless you Nate for being the loudest Javad cheerleader.?ÿ If I knew how to order custom pom poms, I would certainly send you a pair.
@beuckie I have never used a Javad yet. But I have pushed the latest Trimble units in some very bad places on purpose and tested them against very good traverse data . Nate is correct that with enough data you can achieve very good results. Now besides Nate I have a few people throughout the US that have them and love them compared to Trimble for the very reasons Nate states and that is the built in checks for what you are trying to achieve. A very good friend spent a year testing the Javad in his neck of the woods. He would set control in open skies and traverse in and out to see how the results compared to the javad and his Trimble at the time. Javad won hands down and cost less and was more reliable/repeatable . ?ÿNow I hope to be using one soon to test for sure. But I have no complaints so far about the R12i as long as you have someone doing more than just pushing measure points and accepting the H and V rmse values as gospel. I am usually measuring control or corners with a minimum 180 epochs so basically i am there for 3 minutes. And I reobserve at a different time. I watch the sky plot the snr the elevation numbers are while observing. Especially in a hostile environment. ?ÿI have never cared to try and use gps in an area that was not open. But the new constellations and the advanced multi path detection has made it worth taking a gamble to speed up production. But you better have some Redundancy Redundancy Redundancy when doing so.?ÿ
Think about it this way. Every time you push the button for your total station to measure a distance. You are getting more than one shot Redundancy. ?ÿ
It is all about the checks available real time to give you a warm fuzzy feeling about a shot.?ÿ There is a ton of information available on the Javad screen to allow you to decide whether you should stay there longer and accept and move on.?ÿ ?ÿIt can also be set to run automatically per set parameters such as wide open, mid canopy, heavy canopy.?ÿ I prefer to keep a close eye on the screen generally because each shot is a little unique.?ÿ Having the screen and head all as one unit is a monstrously huge advantage when going through the brush.?ÿ I've cussed a blue streak in the past with a 2 meter rod and an attached clunky data collector snagging on every little branch and vine.?ÿ Now I can collapse my rod in 4 seconds to 18", tuck the whole kit and caboodle under my arm, and crawl down every little deer trail and rabbit path in the state with no fuss.?ÿ Until you have experienced that freedom of movement, you've not lived.?ÿ I feel like a fire and brimstone preacher on that particular subject.?ÿ Lean and fast.?ÿ Because everything I need to carry around is so easy to haul, my solo surveying career can go much longer into old age than if I had to haul a tripod, rod, gun, and data collector and walk the traverse line 5 times just to carry assumed coordinates around a property.
?ÿ ?ÿAll of the information available to the average user is a lot to wrap your head around, and probably a lot to teach to field crews but easy to use once you catch on.?ÿ That may be why there isn't one in every office.?ÿ My buddy just bought his first zero turn mower this week, having never been on one before.?ÿ They are fantastic mowers but don't drive at all like anything else.?ÿ He is jerking around his yard, going left when he thought he should be going right and completely unable to go in a straight line.?ÿ Have you ever watched someone for the first time on a zero turn.?ÿ Its funny.?ÿ Javad is a lot like that.?ÿ Not at all like anything else, but it can be learned without too much trouble and then you can zip around your project incredibly fast.
I notice that there is a band of purple paint around the tree you are shooting near.?ÿ I had a client recently want to mark his entire property in purple because he had heard that by doing so, he unequivocally possessed and owned everything within his purple markings and could not be beaten in court.?ÿ I've never heard that before, about a specific color giving a property owner "SUPER TITLE POWERS" and rarely see that color being used around here.
Never seen a Javad unit in Europe. Or any other stuff they sell.?ÿ
I alsways wonder : if it is as good as NAte claims why don't we see more off them?
Well, all this is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that the "Big Three", are not promoting Javad, because they do not make a profit from selling other's equipment, AND have nothing to gain, by telling their clientele that some other brand may serve their purposes better.
It's a dog eat dog world, and this is no exception. Keeping current firmware has always been free, from Javad. Hardware no. Gotta pay for that. I see many GPS units, that after getting 3-4 yrs old, stop working as good. FIRMWARE will fix this, many times. But, often the salesperson will promote the "Next greatest model", instead of telling that customer "Upgrade the firmware". (not much profit in that).?ÿ
I personally want the BEST equipment, and I'll be the judge of what's best for me. Not some salesperson, who stands to make a profit.
(My Opinion).
@ Tom Bushelman, Purple Paint around here, means "No Hunting".
My opinion is that the "Big Three", are not promoting Javad, because they do not make a profit from selling other's equipment, AND have nothing to gain, by telling their clientele that some other brand may serve their purposes better.
The larger manufacturers produce and sell an entire suite of terrestrial geospatial equipment - not just GNSS receivers - plus field and office software packages, designed for fast transfer of all types of data between office and field and consolidation of a multitude of data from many different sources for processing, analysis and production.
It's a full-service package deal, in other words, and verges on a turnkey solution. Most geospatial firms, especially mid- to large-size shops, need as much standardization as they can get. Mixing and matching gear can be a headache even for an expert or power user.
?ÿ
I'm sure Javad is fantastic if you rarely need to work with a total station or a level, or if you don't have multiple crews in the field who might not have the background technical expertise to use the advanced features of the Javad gear.
I believe that guy is confusing title issues with notification of "No Trespassing" which purple paint legally provides in some jurisdictions.
I think you are right. One of my dad's old sayings was: "The wish was father to the fact". Meaning, that because somebody WANTED it to be some way, that it now WAS that way.
I have been out having fun with my Javad. This is a 1/4 Corner, on a Range Line. The big oak is directly south of the 3/4" Conduit. It's about 0.2' from the tree to the back of the LS.
?ÿ
MANY modern GPS Units can gain a FIXED solution, on places like this. The question is, "IS IT RIGHT?". Well, if you can take enough shots, you can SEPARATE the good data from the bad. You can do this, MANUALLY, with most modern GPS units. As soon as it gains a fix, save it, and repeat. IF you do this for long enough, you can eventually gain a statistical solution. With some fixes within a prescribed value, and some outside. The amount of time needed to weed out the BAD data, and the salvage the GOOD data varies. In BAD places, it can take over an hour. In reasonable places, it can take just a few minutes.
?ÿ
I shot this one twice. About 15 Minutes total. Javad has automated the process of gaining enough Statistical data, to separate the GOOD data, from the BAD data. So, one shot, is equal to several hundred shots, and an analysis of that data, for each shot.
?ÿ
Phase one, is gain a fix, and save it temporary. Repeat, until it gets 15 fixes inside a 0.15' diameter circle.
Phase two, is Collect all data within the above circle, (This refines the location in the circle).
Phase 3, is to double check the overall location of the above 0.15' diameter circle. (It's a kind of repeated phase 1, but includes more data).
So, one typical shot, is a combination of a number of different kinds of fixes, with one, two, three, or four engines.?ÿ
From all this data, the overall statistical data results in 1:10,000 that the REAL coordinate will be within that 0.15' circle. IF you repeat this, you can tighten it down, to less than 0.05'.
In very bad locations, one shot in 10,000 will be outside this circle, usually, it is off by around 1/2 a foot, or less. So, if a point is critical, I will shoot them 2x or 3x. IF shot spread is too large, then go for 4x or 5x.
I have found it easier to sit around waiting for my Javad, than to run traverses. Besides, it gives the ticks opportunity to bite me.
Nate
Nate is that pure static or Base/Rover?
N10,000, E7,000, Z100.00
PLS - IL, MO, AR, KS, MN, KY
I have been out having fun with my Javad. This is a 1/4 Corner, on a Range Line. The big oak is directly south of the 3/4" Conduit. It's about 0.2' from the tree to the back of the LS.
?ÿ
MANY modern GPS Units can gain a FIXED solution, on places like this. The question is, "IS IT RIGHT?". Well, if you can take enough shots, you can SEPARATE the good data from the bad. You can do this, MANUALLY, with most modern GPS units. As soon as it gains a fix, save it, and repeat. IF you do this for long enough, you can eventually gain a statistical solution. With some fixes within a prescribed value, and some outside. The amount of time needed to weed out the BAD data, and the salvage the GOOD data varies. In BAD places, it can take over an hour. In reasonable places, it can take just a few minutes.
?ÿ
I shot this one twice. About 15 Minutes total. Javad has automated the process of gaining enough Statistical data, to separate the GOOD data, from the BAD data. So, one shot, is equal to several hundred shots, and an analysis of that data, for each shot.
?ÿ
Phase one, is gain a fix, and save it temporary. Repeat, until it gets 15 fixes inside a 0.15' diameter circle.
Phase two, is Collect all data within the above circle, (This refines the location in the circle).
Phase 3, is to double check the overall location of the above 0.15' diameter circle. (It's a kind of repeated phase 1, but includes more data).
So, one typical shot, is a combination of a number of different kinds of fixes, with one, two, three, or four engines.?ÿ
From all this data, the overall statistical data results in 1:10,000 that the REAL coordinate will be within that 0.15' circle. IF you repeat this, you can tighten it down, to less than 0.05'.
In very bad locations, one shot in 10,000 will be outside this circle, usually, it is off by around 1/2 a foot, or less. So, if a point is critical, I will shoot them 2x or 3x. IF shot spread is too large, then go for 4x or 5x.
I have found it easier to sit around waiting for my Javad, than to run traverses. Besides, it gives the ticks opportunity to bite me.
Nate
Are you saying that there is no fun in shooting every 15-30 seconds, storing it,, reset rtk solution, changing the point number back to the previous and shooting again, telling it to average the 2, then repeating these steps multiple more times?
It is nice to know at least one manufacturer automated this process. A lot of things I see in the software tells me the programmers just don't have the time required to polish up the obvious stuff.
That said, I don't think it's likely my r10 would ever gain a fix in that position, at least not more than once with no way to verify the shot.?ÿ
Here, purple on posts and trees near property lines specifically means, "No hunting allowed without written permission of the landowner".?ÿ That opens the door for the game warden to ask to see said written permission from any and all hunters that he encounters, so long as the perimeter of the property has some conspicuous purple paint.
That said, I don't think it's likely my r10 would ever gain a fix in that position, at least not more than once with no way to verify the shot.?ÿ
Somehow, I believe that javad is running an "open squelch", meaning that I probably have somewhere around 4-600 fixed solutions on that shot. How much is thrown out, and how much is kept is a variable. Total time separation between fixes is taken into account. It quits when it is confident that it got the shot within about 0.15'. When you start getting that much data, through the trees, in places like that.... It'll make a Javad fan outa a surveyor, who understands what he's getting.
@stlLSurveyor, I don't know current prices. I'm just a food source for ticks! I don't work for javad. They work for me!
The larger manufacturers produce and sell an entire suite of terrestrial geospatial equipment - not just GNSS receivers - plus field and office software packages, designed for fast transfer of all types of data between office and field and consolidation of a multitude of data from many different sources for processing, analysis and production.
It's a full-service package deal, in other words, and verges on a turnkey solution. Most geospatial firms, especially mid- to large-size shops, need as much standardization as they can get. Mixing and matching gear can be a headache even for an expert or power user.
I'm sure Javad is fantastic if you rarely need to work with a total station or a level, or if you don't have multiple crews in the field who might not have the background technical expertise to use the advanced features of the Javad gear.
I think you have many valid points there. Especially in construction industry, where a robot is needed, or a complete integration of tight levels, with other data. Many people got started in this construction side, and are familiar with the gear, and are now starting their own company.
Or, where there is machinery with GPS, and it all must integrate.
Boundary work is where Javad shines.
I even think that in BLM, where retracement is an all day long thing, the Javad system has clear potential. For this to work out well, personell need to be trained, and or have good support.
I have several surveyors, around here, who USED to perform less than great work. They got Javads, and their work has come WAY UP. But, it's mostly boundary cadastral work.
