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A county sidewalk project to replace uplifted (from oak tree roots, etc.) pieces of sidewalk resulted in the destruction of the property (lot 176) owner's front property corners (nails and discs in sidewalk). Recovered points 1 (nail and disc) encroaching +/- 1.10' in sidewalk, 2 (1/2" iron pipe) +/- 0.50' off back of walk, and 3 ("X"-cut) encroaching +/- 0.50' in sidewalk. The PC of lot 55 was not recovered. Property owner wants the county to replace her front corners. I have never seen such a skewed (relative to the R/W lines) sidewalk. I wonder what happened. Do you think a county, city, etc. should reset front property corners due to such sidewalk projects?
Maybe the sidewalk isn't skewed but the points found are at different offsets to the right-of-way.
And, yes, if the CIty, County, utility, or whomever knocks out a property corner or witness to it should have to replace it at their own expense.
(And that can get expensive.?ÿ I did one for a city that ended up costing over $10,000 for one corner!)
I did one for a city that ended up costing over $10,000 for one corner!
Sounds like you had to survey the entire block to reset the corner.
Maybe the sidewalk isn't skewed but the points found are at different offsets to the right-of-way.
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I don't know. If you go into the cul-de-sac (Broad Meadow Court), the recovered points (in the red rectangle) are all practically in the center of the sidewalk. Too bad we don't have time to survey the entire block.
What should be done and what will be done are two very different things.?ÿ Even in recording states where the fact these corner monuments exist, no one thinks to take their existence into consideration.?ÿ This is something state survey societies should be championing.
For a project like this In the City of Denver, we have a crew walk the project before any demo and tie out (swing ties) any points they find. At the completion of construction they replace the point with a marker stamped "Recross" as most were chiseled crosses to begin with. The surveyor in charge deposits with the City and County a diagram showing what he found, what he replaced it with, and a statement that effectively says "I don't know what this monument represented I only perpetuated it."
I wonder if anyone has ever contacted their homeowner's insurance carrier about covering the cost of monument replacement??ÿ Less deductible of course.
Even in recording states where the fact these corner monuments exist, no one thinks to take their existence into consideration.
In California it's the law.?ÿ ??8771(b) of the Business and Professions Code:
When monuments exist that control the location of subdivisions, tracts, boundaries, roads, streets, or highways, or provide horizontal or vertical survey control, the monuments shall be located and referenced by or under the direction of a licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer legally authorized to practice land surveying prior to the time when any streets, highways, other rights-of-way, or easements are improved, constructed, reconstructed, maintained, resurfaced, or relocated, and a corner record or record of survey of the references shall be filed with the county surveyor.
Unfortunately, not all public agencies are aware of the statute, or comply with it if they are.?ÿ It's a constant battle in my city; whenever I become aware of a street improvement project I contact Public Works to remind them that they need to inventory the monuments in the affected area and make perpetuation part of their construction contract.?ÿ Sometimes it works, other times not so much.
Tickled pink to learn someone is attempting to do it correctly.
I think that you are going to need some more evidence before you can proceed with setting corners. It is indeed unusual, although not unheard of, for the curb and sidewalk line to not be parallel with the right of way.
And yes, it is the county's responsibility to replace those monuments.
?ÿThe business I recently retired from and sold to my VP has laid out houses and lots for 12-15K platted lots in Central FL over the last 30 years. The ongoing problems with sidewalks in developments being skewed is because the concrete crews pull tape from the seam line of the asphalt in the road or other eyeballed gustimates if no other control is readily available. They will ??pull and replace? corners also. So it??s not uncommon for them not to match.
I??ll bet if you look at the sidewalk vs. property line on the radius returns of lots 175 and 55 the sidewalk is nowhere near the property line. The only place I have seen the sidewalks and front property lines match is in plats developed prior to 1980. ?????ÿ
Oregon has a similar statute.?ÿ ORS 209.150 requires any person disturbing a monument of record "shall cause a registered professional land surveyor to reference and replace the monument within 90 days".?ÿ Good luck getting that done by fence builders.?ÿ If it is part of road work then the monument needs only be shown on a recorded survey if in falls within newly acquired R/W.?ÿ That is more often followed but not always.
Washington has similar requirements as well.?ÿ
With just the information given you have not convinced me you have found any property corners. I agree you have found evidence but it isn't apparent they are corners. Typically the people who built the streets also built the walks and they usually are where they are supposed to be. Does your evidence fit within itself and check to a point that you are positive is an actual corner and not an offset? You may not have time to survey the entire block but you have to have enough time to survey in order to be positive you are monumenting the property correctly.
Typically the people who built the streets also built the walks and they usually are where they are supposed to be.
This is definitely not the case in my neck of the woods.?ÿ The sidewalks are typically built along with the roadway on 'road projects' but rarely on subdivisions.?ÿ One of my pet peeve's about new subdivisions in my town is the patchwork of sidewalks.?ÿ They do not get put in until after the lots are sold and the houses built even thought the curb cuts are set during road construction.?ÿ If the curbs and walks were placed exactly offset from the R/W why would we even need to survey in monuments, just hold the curbs and go.?ÿ
@john-putnam John, there have been times when the paucity of evidence required us to collect flowlines of curbs for 2 or more blocks in order to re-establish property corners for 1 particular block. I'm sure it is regional and can change from subdivision to subdivision but the streets typically fit fairly well and sidewalks tend to maintain a specific distance from back of curb in the areas I have worked.
You have been fortunate.?ÿ Many of the city streets I deal with were created in the 1800's.?ÿ Curb and gutter in residential areas came decades later.?ÿ Most of the first streets were dirt until brick plants could provide a ready source of hard pavement.?ÿ There is little uniformity in sidewalk construction.?ÿ Some of the original plats were on paper or left only wooden stakes that rapidly disappeared.?ÿ The early surveyors did their best with the tools they had available and only concerned themselves with the tract required.?ÿ They did not have the luxuries we have today to connect points at great distances from one another to ensure "perfect" alignments and measurements between the individual tracts first marked out.?ÿ As surveyors came along later they had to make decisions as to whether to hold certain monuments as perfect or to use proportional methods or to ignore record street widths in order to keep a series of monuments aligned. A record 60-foot street may have variable width between block monuments, sometimes more and sometimes less than record.?ÿ It is what it is.
We encountered a stone from an 1812 layout lying on the ground next to a newly installed utility pole. I was shocked at the ignorance of the utility company. It should be obvious that a cut stone with a drilled hole must a mark for something.?ÿ
A report of the situation was made to the City Engineer and we asked what recourse can be had for such a crime. His answer was that the city would sue for the replacement cost and that may provide the needed education.
You bring up a great example of why the state societies and the national societies must educate certain groups of workers and the world in general.?ÿ The DIG SAFE commercials that appear on television have awoken many average citizens to think about what is under the surface.
I often wonder why DIG SAFE is not marking survey monuments as part of their adventures in coloring our streets. OSHA has already assigned a color (pink) to indicate survey marks.
Monument preservation is very prevalent around here in ID and WA, particularly amongst the private companies.?ÿ Most municipalities have no idea what the actual codes governing our monuments are.?ÿ It's our duty to educate them. It's coming along fairly well but there are always new staff at these agencies that have no clue.?ÿ ?ÿIn my primary state, ID, it is the engineers professional responsibility to accurately show the surveyed location of all monuments within the project area.?ÿ We survey all of our own projects so it's not an issue.?ÿ Most times, we are also responsible (contractually) for the replacement of destroyed or disturbed monuments.?ÿ However, if the contractor goes off the grid and destroys corners not designated for destruction or replacement it is their responsibility to replace them.?ÿ In ID any monument being replaced that isn't a PLSS corner requires a full blown record of survey.
