Recommendations on New Equipment

Mark, I can only recommend what level not to buy. I bought a Topcon digital level just to find out that it was really a Sokkia and that there was no specific software to use with it. I had to purchase modules for my TDS Nomad that would finally allow me to download the files and I had to buy TDS Foresight so that I could print out a level report. None of those programs were made for the unit and it was an aggrevating cluster. How have you been?
Alan

Mark....The 5" TS12 would be the best recommendation and the DNA03 (1st order) & DNA10 (2nd order) for your digital leveling. Seeing as you're located in NC, talk to Dean Howell. He's the Leica Direct rep for your territory and an excellent resource.

Bill Murphy
Leica Geosystems MD, DC,

Mark,

First ... I would love to hear the story behind the picture for you avatar. That one makes me laugh.

First.... what is your data flow? Are you currently using TDS or Carlson and would you be willing to explore a different data collection package?

I am familiar with the Leica DNA but... I am 90% sure that each manufacturer has their own coding for the digital rods including the invar rods. This is due to the different methods each instrument uses to resolve the readings. The housing are usually the same but the coding is not.

What brand is the digital level you are currently using and were the rods purchased with the package with the digital level you have currently?

I can help to make sure that the rods would be compatible with the Leica DNA. This would be a cost point for the new purchase.

Let me know and I will research the rod issue.

I just buy whatever Bill Murphy tells me to 😉

I have used Leica, Topcon, and Trimble extensively in our company operations for 25 years. I have had good and bad experiences with all three, and not long ago I swore I was going to change to Leica when I got disgruntled with Trimble about the cost of firmware update. I have owned at least 8 different models of the Topcon since the GTS-2 first came out. We owned at least 4 brands of leica total stations and Leica levels. We owned 4-Leica 530 GPS systems. We had the Trimble 5603 robot and now have the Trimble S6 Robot and the Trimble R8GNSS gps.

I can say from my own personal experience after using this stuff hands on myself, the following:

1. Topcon has been generally good and plenty accurate for 5 second work. We never really had any operational issues with Topcon equipment. They are also pretty rugged. However, for Topcon GPS, we never had any luck at all, but we have not used the newer Topcon equipment. Our bad luck with the GPS was some of the earlier equipment, and our complaint was mostly their post-processing software. Their digital levels are absolutely excellent, based upon our experience.

2. We never got good verticals using our Leica 303's and 703's. The Leica 530 GPS started out buggy, but after a while it became the best GPS units that we had ever owned, by far.

3. If you want the very most accurate and well thought out and efficient robot on earth, the S6 is the one to get. It is also an excellent total station. I owned a Leica 1200 briefly, and in my opinion it could not compete with the S6. I am continually astonished at the accuracy and speed of the S6. The laser EDM for reflectorless is extremely good. The R8GNSS is extremely reliable and fast. My only complaint is that Trimble does not allow you to move your TSC2-TSC3 firmware to a new data collector if your hardware breaks. That got me all fired up at one time, but seriously, all things considered, Trimble stuff is far superior.

I am sure others who use Leica, Nikon, etc, will have things to say about what they use, and they will likely disagree with my perspective.

surveythemark will look into things for you, and apparently gives some decent input on Leica equipment, but please know that he is a leica dealer, just in case you are looking for non-biased input.

Bottom line: Topcon is less expensive, but rugged and good. Trimble is top of line in my opinion, and the extra cost is actually a net savings due to speed, support, and reliability (especially new models) in my opinion. Also, Trimble will not release stuff that is not pretty well beta tested in my opinion.

All of this is simply my opinion based upon my own personal experience.

Send me your email address, and I will send you something you will find amusing.

If you're going to Bluebook, you will need the aspirated digital thermometers. We re-invented them with currently available equipment components. We use a Zeiss/Trimble digital level. You're welcome to come look at our toys, Mark. It's about time that you are experienceing boiled crawfish withdrawl, anyway.

.01mm? thats .00003 feet.

> .01mm? thats .00003 feet.

Hmmm...he did say "measurement resolution" rather than "accuracy," but that still might be a problem. I can't speak for other makes/models, but the DNA03 records readings to 4 decimal places. In its native meters, that's 0.0001 m = 0.1 mm. If you run in feet you'll get readings to 0.0001 foot = 0.00003 foot, but still...

I have not used anything but Leica Digital Levels and can highly recommend them. We only have fiberglass rods but routinely get 2nd order closures on loops, using 3 rd order procedures. We wore a NA2000 out and replaced it with a DNA10. I have heard some people complain that the compensator on the NA3000, the old model 1st order level, was too sensitive, and that on mildly windy days, it would not work, even for a 3rd orde, run. I have not heard the same complaint about the DNA03. There are several digital levels that will do the job. If you are trying to use rods that you already own, you will probably have to purchase the level that matches the rods. THe rods and accessories cost almost as much as the level.

We use Leica total stations but there are several other good brands, if you can get dealer support. Dealer support is is the most important thing in the decision of what brand equipment to purchase. I want to deal with people that don't nickel and dime you to death with upgrades and support, and are responsive to your needs. We once had GPS equipment from a manufacturer on the west coast whose support line opened at 9:00 AM Pacific time. That was 12:00 noon our time. When you had a problem, it could blow an entire day of observations. .

> 3. If you want the very most accurate and well thought out and efficient robot on earth, the S6 is the one to get. It is also an excellent total station. I owned a Leica 1200 briefly, and in my opinion it could not compete with the S6. I am continually astonished at the accuracy and speed of the S6. The laser EDM for reflectorless is extremely good. ...all things considered, Trimble stuff is far superior.
>

funny, this is the opposite of my experience, and those i work with.

we used to use S6 robots and were continually amazed at how bad they were:

-we had the occasional mystery distances (several feet error occasionally!).
-the detachable faces used for robotic work were continually losing connection to the robot and the range was poor (200 yds was the furthest reliable range on a good day)
-the lasers were never adjusted to be coaxial so we had to be very careful when shooting to building corners, eaves, gutters etc.
-battery life was poor
-without the expensive smart track prisms they would lock onto ANYTHING (annoying).
-the instruments were being fixed often but these problems persisted

3 of us have left that company and are very happy to be using the 1200+ series & viva leicas. none of us have any problems with the on-board software either, which gets a smacking often on this forum for some reason.

:good:

Not to mention the fact that if the collector, for some reason, isn't working the instrument is nothing more than a door stop.:-S

Hello,

Until April 2012 I had used Leica equipment exclusivley. Total Stations and GPS.

Most recently a six year stretch at an earthworks company setting up the Machine control and staff traning for GPS setout as well as the usual topo, setout, volume calcs etc. They were running two TPS 1200s and GPS900.

For the last year or so I have been using a Trimble S6 for a local authority. It took a while to get used to it and to be fair it has its good points. But I would not like to be earning a living on construction sites with one.

Trimble bad points.

1, The box, It isnt easy to carry a long way on site.

2, When setting up the instrument, until the mag drive has kicked in , the instrument rotates left and right all over the place.

2a, The start up time from when the instrument is turned on.

3, The heavy multi track prism and pole.

4, The place that I work didnt by the standalone controller and we still have to swap the face plate from the instrument. If you dont get that quite wright you need a reboot.

5, The "talking lady" commentary.

6, The too large search area for the prism when you are right in the line of the telescope after lock is lost.

Good points.

1, Faster tracking in both directions than the Leica TPS 1202.(especially close in.)

2, The sdr format output file has both faces recorded on the report and the avergaged location.

Some of these bad points may be sorted by training.

Leica Bad points. (TPS 1202)

1, prism tracks better clockwise than anti clockwise.

2, We had ongoing issues with the radio handles.

3, RX1220 controllers had radio issues.

4, The screen got scratched on the RX1220 at about 5 years old and were no longer avaliable and we had to replace the complete cases front and back.

5, Once the contractor side of the company got onto the GPS and T/s the clear coat layer on the displays kept delaminating. ( mainly due to wet and muddy weather. every hour onsite is valuable wet or dry.)

Leica good points. (TPS 12020

1, Fast setup time.

2, Good Roadrunner software.

3, RX1220 , 1250 controllers have a nice practical layout. Light weight and Mono screen. (1220 only)

4, Very good reflectorless measuring.

5, Better optics, ( my opinion.)

6, Physically smaller.

After coming to terms with the s6 for a year (good and bad)and the fact that we have a large earthworks project on at the moment I have hired my old tps1202 from the previous employer. I would have payed for it myself, it makes large jobs that much easier.

Obviously these are my personal thoughts and findings and I have no ties to any manufacturer.

I would try the various makes out on the jobs that you do every day and see how they perform in your enviroment.

Data transfer is also an area that may make or break the deal if you are needing roading or dtm jobs loaded to the instrument.

Hope this may be of some help.

Mark-We are a Leica and Spectra dealer in NC. I travel to all parts of the State and would be happy to come by and talk with you about some options. Instead of selling you on a brand, or me, jumping on my own bandwagon brand I'd be happy to drop some equipment off with you so that you can evaluate it first hand without a sales guy over your shoulder.

Feel free to email me if you are interested.

[email protected]

> ... the DNA03 (1st order) & DNA10 (2nd order) for your digital leveling...
The DNA03 is a very nice unit, reliable, yields phenomenal results with modest care.

> > ... the DNA03 (1st order) & DNA10 (2nd order) for your digital leveling...
> The DNA03 is a very nice unit, reliable, yields phenomenal results with modest care.

"Modest care" includes not transporting the unit with the case in the handle-up position, despite the fact that it seems to be designed to do just that. I was cautioned about this after learning that my unit wouldn't peg within the 10 seconds required to meet NGS specs. (I don't recall the number, but I think it was several multiples of 10.)

I appreciate very much you folks taking the time to respond. There are plenty of issues and items to consider and I was confident that this forum would be a great resource.

Thanks guys, very much.
Mark

Alan,

I am doing better than the law allows! I still pinch myself everyday to make sure that I am not dreaming. I am really enjoying living in the foothills of the Appalachians. I do sometimes miss the food in New Orleans especially red fish, speckled trout, and a good sloppy roast beef po'boy. I do not miss the hot and humid weather!

I trust that you guys are doing well. Your firm is a great example of why I like to use the term partners instead of contractors. Keep up the good work.

Hey Cliff,

Not sure of what the instruments will be used for. Thanks for the offer. I was just the other day telling the story about you guys lending me your equipment to check out GULFNet. Very impressive! I don't get to the field these days as much as I'd like.

And you are correct about boiled crawfish withdrawal! I've been known to make Cajun Sushi with that stuff! And the leftovers make a FANTASTIC crawfish and corn chowder. WOW!

I miss working with you guys. Osmosis is a wonderful thing.