paden cash, post: 362322, member: 20 wrote: I'm either running into more and more idiots...
Uh, question? This is in Oklahoma, right?
Kent McMillan, post: 362393, member: 3 wrote: Uh, question? This is in Oklahoma, right?
Of course it's Oklahoma, Kent.
You remember Oklahoma...the place where we wear the bull crap on the outside of our boots...;-)
(couldn't resist...football withdrawals made me say it...)
It seems everyone around here has a story of a gun being pulled on them. It really is a scary situation. People say "I would've done this..., or you should've done that". Kudos to you Paden for remaining calm.
I was warned about the neighbor lady and boy were they right. We were half a mile from the project when she stopped to ask what we were doing. I just said surveying and left it at that. She informed me she knew who we were working for, who she was and she KNEW were her corners were. I said good, I wouldn't have to stop at her house to introduce myself and she could show me her corners. She kind of huffed and drove off. Later when we pulled up I started looking for some corners clearly into land she was claiming and she came hustling out and asked "can I help you?" like we hadn't talked a couple of hours before. Without looking up, I said "nope been doing it twenty some years, think I got it" and finished digging up the pin she swore wasn't there. She followed me chewing my ear for another twenty-thirty minutes before she got tired of trying to walk through the waste deep hay field. Later he husband pulled up and he was nice enough to talk to and then he said he was married to the woman back the lane. I said "you have my sympathy" before my brain could stop me but he just kinda smiled and said "I see you've met".
[USER=20]@paden cash[/USER]
Personally, I think you handled the situation perfectly. A professional representation of our profession. B-)
My favorite was me getting suddenly yelled at because an adjoiner accused me of trespass (which I wasn't).
He offered to call the sheriff. I calmly suggested that was a great idea. He looked at me strangely...and I explained that a sheriff would likely believe that I, as the surveyor, knew where the property line was. He shook his head and walked off.
R.J. Schneider, post: 362388, member: 409 wrote: The old addage: There's always one more A@#$^@#e than what you counted on. I've always liked the height of summer here in Houston, those worthless pos can only get so far from the air conditioning. You're almost safe if you can stay in the direct sun far removed from any source of shade or a/c.
Cold and windy days are great too, you won't see nobody!
stranger: Hey! What you doin'?
surveyor: surveying
stranger: What for?
surveyor: Well, our crew rate is about $125 an hour, last I was told.
dmyhill, post: 362428, member: 1137 wrote: My favorite was me getting suddenly yelled at because an adjoiner accused me of trespass (which I wasn't).
He offered to call the sheriff. I calmly suggested that was a great idea. He looked at me strangely...and I explained that a sheriff would likely believe that I, as the surveyor, knew where the property line was. He shook his head and walked off.
In Tennessee there are laws in place that say a working surveyor can cross or use adjoining property if it is necessary or safer or something along those lines
JTLAPOINTE, post: 362465, member: 11401 wrote: In Tennessee there are laws in place that say a working surveyor can cross or use adjoining property if it is necessary or safer or something along those lines
Good law, but not the case here in WA, as far as I know
JTLAPOINTE, post: 362465, member: 11401 wrote: In Tennessee there are laws in place that say a working surveyor can cross or use adjoining property if it is necessary or safer or something along those lines
As long as you make an effort to notify them. Don't jump out of the truck and start traipsing behind someone's house without knocking on the door first.
It seems like it should be a law everywhere that the land surveyor should at least be allowed to trespass in order to search for evidence and occupy the line s/he is retracing. I mean it's flat-out impossible to do a boundary survey without at least straddle the property line and occupy or set the corners. But further, you need to investigate. If you haven't found all the evidence yet, and/or made any determinations, the property line is unknown. Just the fact that you're out there, means that at least one of the owners wants to know where his line is.
Tom Adams, post: 362497, member: 7285 wrote: It seems like it should be a law everywhere that the land surveyor should at least be allowed to trespass in order to search for evidence and occupy the line s/he is retracing.
It's a federal law, put in place by George Washington; that a Surveyor may urinate anywhere; as long as he is discreet. I think that today, it would also be OK for women, it's just that there were no women surveyors in 1776....
paden cash, post: 362394, member: 20 wrote: Of course it's Oklahoma.
Okay. So you're running into more and more idiots in Oklahoma? Is this another one of those "Dog Bites Man" headlines?
California does have a Right of Entry statute as part of its Professional Land Surveyors' Act. It is also codified in the Civil Code, where law enforcement is more likely to be aware of it.
I once had a client tie a string between two of his property corners I set, about 900 feet apart. He then measured the string against a yard stick he had. I shorted him several feet.
Tom Adams, post: 362497, member: 7285 wrote: It seems like it should be a law everywhere that the land surveyor should at least be allowed to trespass in order to search for evidence and occupy the line s/he is retracing. I mean it's flat-out impossible to do a boundary survey without at least straddle the property line and occupy or set the corners. But further, you need to investigate. If you haven't found all the evidence yet, and/or made any determinations, the property line is unknown. Just the fact that you're out there, means that at least one of the owners wants to know where his line is.
A private property owner deserves advance notice if you are going to be working on their land.
It's that simple. The notice should contain a specific date or dates so the land owner can provide that access and maybe put their pit bull in the house while you are working.
CLSA provides a convenient door hanger for folks who aren't home, or not answering the door for the scary looking field guys.
I don't mind spectators if they're not physically aggressive, are unarmed and stay at least 6 feet away from me, even if they're yelling their heads off. On public property that's their right. On private property first order of business is see if you can make them into enablers and ask if they know about the boundaries and pins in these here parts. If they know nothing or are unwilling to help, they ultimately run out of steam if you're civil but terse. If you can string these types along for 15 minutes or so maybe that's all it takes for the one or two shots on pins in their back line you need, then it's "good day sir, thank you for your cooperation."
Claims of trespass, since I usually work in a right of entry State, first I confirm it's probable the yeller is the owner or owner's agent, he/she denies being served by letter or tag on the front door after a knock on the door and horn honk upon arrival, if not, show him the right of entry law tag and continue work, unless he/she insists on the trespass claim. In that case I leave, costing me and my client time and money, and if the yeller is completely bonkers, payment to an off duty sheriff for an escort in round 2.
The game changes the more remote the survey and whether you're a Federal or private surveyor.
"PUBLIC SURVEYING -- RIGHT OF ENTRY. Any person employed in the execution of any survey authorized by the congress of the United States may enter upon lands within this state for the purpose of exploring, triangulating, leveling, surveying, and of doing any work which may be necessary to carry out the objects of then existing laws relative to surveys, and may establish permanent station marks, and erect the necessary signals and temporary observatories, doing no unnecessary injury thereby."
Imagine you're working for the BLM and need to get to a BLM boundary which is only accessible by driving 20 miles of private ranch road through 6 locked gates. And, you're using optical equipment so you're surveying as you go, setting random control, etc. You'll be doing some offroading, minor damage and "damage" setting your control points. Best is to spend some quality time with whoever is actually managing the land (owner may be in New York), and emphasize this is a good thing, clearly marked boundaries will be the end result. The crooks, folks who are farming Federal land adjacent to their fields , etc., will not cooperate and the field crew will include an armed FS officer and some massive brush work (right through the middle of a cornfield) followed by some temp BLM crews scything the corn on the FS side of the line. Year after year, ain't the Federal Government great?
I have been stopped in my tracks by an armed owner only once. FS surveying an ancient Indian Reservation boundary in Northern Idaho, after 5 miles of running line in heavy forest and steep terrain (amazingly finding a few original monuments) we come upon a cozy homestead with about two acres of overgrown pasture, a dilapidated cabin and an overgrown ruined apple orchard behind the cabin. Our line runs right through the cabin. On the front porch sits an 80+ year old man with what looks like a side by side 12 gauge shotgun. As the rodman enters the waist high weed pasture the man stands up, points the shotgun at us and says nothing. We were 100 yards away so a shotgun would hurt us but not kill. Neil Forsyth, the Cadastral Surveyor in charge of the crew, who would have been verbally engaging the landowner said nope, withdraw, this guy is serious. It's odd because we were packing .357 to .45 cal sidearms because of local bears; useless against a shotgun at longer ranges.
Anyway, I much later I heard the guy died with no heirs, and the FS absorbed his little homestead so the problem was solved. Time cures all ills.
Mike Marks, post: 362513, member: 1108 wrote: I don't mind spectators if they're not physically aggressive, are unarmed and stay at least 6 feet away from me, even if they're yelling their heads off.
We're still talking the land surveying profession, right ?
