I’m wondering what other land surveyors, especially those that conduct mortgage surveys think about this. Utilizing a handheld GPS to perform a mortgage survey on a 2 acre property in a mountainous rural subdivided property? The reason for the inquiry involves a situation in which a mortgage survey was prepared that revealed encroachments and only 2 existing survey monuments are in place.
I think once your rough math shows there to be an improvement close to a property line, you have to break out more precise equipment and show that encroachment to a higher order of precision. To me, a mortgage survey helps ensure that the property being sold is at the same address and has the same home that they bank thinks they are acquiring (Ie show that they aren't loaning on a piece of swamp-land w/no improvements). And it assures there are no encroachements. As soon as a possible encroachment is encountered, it can no longer be an approximate survey.
I've only done one or two mortgage-type surveys, and I did them much more expensively than I could charge.
Poor choice of tools. Like using a screw driver to hammer a nail. I'm sure there are minimum rules and regs to produce the "mortgage survey". On the surface this doesn't even sound close to meeting what I would even consider sub-professional work.
This sounds more like a property owners attempt at surveying. Forget the two existing monuments. At what you described, they mean nothing. Proper methodology can be found in any text books for surveying.
I've seen some strange situations before but this has got to be a first (for me). The property should have been surveyed using today's minimal accepted techniques and proper equipment. Not mapping grade tools.
I don't see any way that someone could verify a location, call it an encroachment and produce a map using mapping grade technology.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Sounds like gross negligence to me. Hope somebody has insurance and doesn't mind loosing their license for a while.
Quit doing mortgage "surveys" years ago. Those are for guys who survey with hand-held GPS devices.
I hear the term "mortgage survey" used on here a lot. In my neck of the woods, a mortgage survey is a full blown boundary survey, and is usually a survey on the lot in question.
In my opinion, the survey that you describe, is what I would "possibly" consider recon for a job. Handheld GPS units, in my opinion, are a valuable tool, but they have their place.
Same here, in Florida they are often called "mortgage surveys", but the requirements are find/set all corners, min. closure of 1:5000 to 1:10,000 (depends), locate all improvements/encroachments to survey accuracy, etc, ...
I guess it would depend on what the state's requirements are. If the state has no minimum requirements for measurement and reporting accuracy, then perhaps the surveyor could just say that his mortgage survey exposed the potential of encroachments and a full survey should be conducted.
The only thing a handheld GPS is used for is to get close to something.
When it comes to surveying, actual surveying tools must be used to measure and make any locations.
:stakeout:
There is the first problem "mortgage survey". Those were invented by customers who didn't want to pay for a real survey and by surveyors who didn't want to do a real survey.
No!
Might as well just plot it on a photo.
"and by surveyors who didn't want to do a real survey.". And those are the ones who need to turn in their licence.
> I’m wondering what other land surveyors, especially those that conduct mortgage surveys think about this. Utilizing a handheld GPS to perform a mortgage survey on a 2 acre property in a mountainous rural subdivided property? The reason for the inquiry involves a situation in which a mortgage survey was prepared that revealed encroachments and only 2 existing survey monuments are in place.
Can we all agree there is no right way to do the wrong thing?
If what Bob is describing is a survey, then obviously the methods described fall far short of what is required of any true professional.
If what Bob is describing is not a survey but a "Mortgage Loan Inspection" then the product might have been fine. Those places that allow MLI's know they aren't surveys.
I believe any time a PLS provides a Map that looks like it was drawn as the result of a survey it should be a survey. Disclaimers that proclaim "this survey isn't really a survey" harm everyone involved (except the title companies that demand them).
Larry P
They go out my door as a foundation inspection. I usually do set up on a found monument and BS another, especially when on a city lot. Have found a few that required a Boundary Line Adjustment to clear title, banks don't like that but are relieved to find out. One I found, that was kind of comical, a very small part of the home had a corner about 2' into the front setback area. The city wanted it moved until I showed them that the sewer line they had installed a few years earlier was not in the easement. Think a variance was issued the next day. This was a contractor built and financed home, constructed to keep his crew busy and to make a little money.
jud
In New Jersey a mortgage survey is also a full blown boundary survey. There is no such thing as a Mortgage Inspection that I hear about in other areas of the country.
Larry,
I believe, from what I understand about the "Psuedo" surveys, that it is allowed by the some states. The states that allow these types of surveys are actually harming the profession by allowing regulants to sign. As a true professional (IMHO) one would not attempt or even prepare a map unless it meets with a standard of professional care. What Bob Port has posted comes close to nothing that I am aware of which would fall under the purview of what a professional should prepare as a benefit to the public/profession.
just my 0.000002 cents
"Survey" with a handheld GPS? Why bother doing anything at all? In fact, it would probably BE BETTER to do nothing at all.
The minute a surveyor shows up, the landowner will assume they are getting a bona fide survey.
A survey is a survey...no such thing as a "Mortgage Survey".
I don't think ANY reputable surveyor I know, who knows anything about GPS, would consider this a good practice, EVER.
Proper Methodology>MA
We have mortgage loan inspections in MA, but I've not done them. They are the $140 "survey" but I won;'t touch them for less than $750, unless I did the subdivision, or other work in the neighborhood and know the area.
It's kind of an embarrassment that we even have regulations covering such a despicable practice.
Proper Methodology>MA
Why don't you get the law changed so relaters would be doing those inspections for the lending institutions. You could become a hero by saving all from the wicked surveyors proving a lawful and apparently needed service.
jud
