PLSS baseline and meridian question

Nearly all of the legal descriptions I see in Nebraska include all descriptions and also the county name. The reference is to the principal meridian only and no mention of the baseline.

Section 10, T11N, R5E of the 6th Principal Meridian, Lancaster County, Nebraska.

I work in the 6th Principal Meridian and have always used the following:

A part of the XX 1/4 of Section X, Township X North, Range XX West of the 6th P.M.
City of X, County of X, State of X.

Hope it helps.

I've always listed the principal meridian, plus the county. Just about everybody does it that way also.

> I work in the 6th Principal Meridian and have always used the following:
>
> A part of the XX 1/4 of Section X, Township X North, Range XX West of the 6th P.M.
> City of X, County of X, State of X.
>
> Hope it helps.

Yup ^^^

Always. No question about it.

LOCATED IN THE NORTHEAST 1/4 OF SECTION 17,
TOWNSHIP 2 NORTH, RANGE 2 EAST, WILLAMETTE MERIDIAN
CITY OF VANCOUVER, CLARK COUNTY, WASHINGTON

Even a short version will be.

NE 1/4, S.17, T2N, R2E, W.M.

About 50-50 here. Some will say Section x, Township y South, Range z East of the 6th P.M., Whatsit County. Others will leave out the "of the 6th P.M." as it is redundant once you indicate the county and State. There is never a reference to the baseline. Everything in the State is south of the baseline and about 40 percent is east and 60 percent is west of the meridian. So the east/west thing is important if the county is not listed. Of course, a few counties have both east and west.

I would roll with whichever way they have it as long as it is correct in the first place. The key is that every section is unique. Have they provided a description designating a unique section?

Don't consider showing the original subdivision control redundant, county's do change, this one has been part of 2 different county's before it reached it's current configuration. 7 Ranges area and failing to show which Range would seem to represent a defective and perhaps a fraudulent description, here it may not be so critical. Section, Township and Range of What, should never be a question on a deed document written by anyone claiming to be qualified to be writing descriptions, leaving that question unanswered in that legal document shows me the writer was not qualified to be writing deed descriptions.
jud

The question of what is required by the law boils down to the interpretation of "Original Land Subdivision." Since it is listed last in the code it would seem to imply the local development (e.g., Sunny Hills Acres subdivision).

If, however it is meant to specify the district (proper term?) as Old Seven Ranges, Connecticut Western Reserve, etc. then you should always reject its absence.

Since Ohio has so many separate PLSS districts, it would seem to be good practice to include everything to reduce confusion.

I think the Meridian always implies the baseline; if so it isn't essential. Most states use one or very few baselines so the question doesn't come up often.

We always reference the PM used, just like others have said.
In my opinion, it is NOT redundant by listing the County and State. The County and State boundaries may be based upon the Meridians, but not the other way around.

Most of ours include the baseline which I always leave out. There is only one Salt Lake Meridian and it doesn't have multiple baselines. All in all including the baseline is probably the least significant problem with our traditional land descriptions. Being void of any calls or description of corner monuments (metes WITHOUT bounds) is the biggie failure and including the baseline doesn't remedy this in the least.

Fortunately a description can't physically modify the actual shape of the earth (contrary to popular belief in many circles) and I can safety walk and drive through the countryside without getting trapped in overlaps, falling into gaps or just forever lost in space.

> I work in Ohio and my newish job consists mostly of reviewing/approving legal descriptions from all over the state.
>
> Question is: when you write legal descriptions in other PLSS states, do you always note the baseline and meridian that the township and range numbers were counted from? Or is it implied because you've already noted the county and can deduce it from that?
>
> Reason I ask, I'd say 75% of new surveys I get submitted to me all list the Twp/Rng numbers but fail to list the Original Land Subdivision (eg. Old Seven Ranges, Connecticut Western Reserve) which in Ohio tell me the baseline and meridian used. I can figure out which subdivision it's in by the county listed, but I believe it's not following the state min standards*.
>
> What says you? I've only kicked back surveys that have had a separate error and told them to also list the original subdivision, but there are so many submitted without it I'm considering changing my policy.
>
>
> Note: I've sent emails to PLSO (professional organization) and the State Board with the same question and didn't receive any response.
>
> Note2: The Original Subdivision also tells me which rules they are retracing under, Land Ordinance of 1785, L.O. of 1796, Tiffin's Instructions.
>
>
> *O.A.C. 4733-37-05
> (C)(1) A title such that the general location of the survey can be identified. The title shall include, but not be limited to: state, county, civil township or municipality, and original land subdivision description.

The O.A.C. section you cite above should require inclusion of the name of the Original Land Subdivision as well as township and range. Some counties in Ohio include as many as three different Original Survey systems and there are a few duplicate section, township, range references in adjoining systems. Also some Original Surveys include sections in five mile townships or two and one half mile quarter townships and many of the systems are not PLSS.

Additionally your statement that you are reviewing descriptions raised an additional question. Are you working under the supervision of an Ohio P.S. or an Ohio P.S. yourself? If not you may be in a questionable legal position. In any case you should be aware of two opinions issued by the Ohio Board of Registration. Most important is "Regarding the Supervision of Surveying in the County Tax Map Office, 2012-05-24" and related is "Preparation of Legal Descriptions 2009-05-27." Both of these are available online at Board Opinions and should be reviewed by anyone, licensed or not, involved in the review of descriptions or survey plats for county or state government.

Although retired I taught surveying for a number of years. If you want to have a more direct/private exchange of information my profile email is good and the webpage will give you additional information on me.

Yep that's my point...township and range of what? Those numbers really mean nothing without noting where they start.

One on my desk right now...Situated in Township of Wooster, County of Wayne, State of Ohio, and known a part of southwest quarter of Section 12, T-15, R-13 and more fully described as follows...

I think it comes from these surveyors only working in a couple of surrounding counties that are all in the same original subdivision.

I'm an Ohio P.S. Registered in 2007, degree from Univ of Akron.

Thanks for the Board Opinions link, hadn't seen those before. And thank you for contact info, I'm sure to have more questions for you.

I couldn't understand

What you were talking about so I googled Ohio Principal Meridian and this map showed up:

I don't have the experience to comment on how to reference this jigsaw puzzle.
I could give some suggestions, but not from any practical knowledge.

I couldn't understand

And those are just the major subdivisions...I think there are over 20 total

If you are interested, this book written in 1925 is the bible of Ohio surveying.

http://www.ohiogeologystore.com/browse.cfm/original-ohio-land-subdivision/4,17.html

Here in Ohio, county and political township boundaries have changed over time, making them not absolutely reliable as descriptors.

I always refer to the original subdivision, as in "section xx Township xx North Range xx East, First Principal Meridian Survey". Of course the First Meridian Survey is one of the easier one's to understand 😀 . I taught "Orginal Ohio Land Subdivisions" for PLSO for several years, so I hope that you have the large copy of Sherman's map for sorting out some of the many idiosyncrasies in these surveys. Also, be aware that different parts of the state have varying traditions in their styles of deed descriptions.

Oklahoma requires the distinction in the Minimum Standards

245:15-13-2. Minimum Standards

d. Minimum Standards for Legal Descriptions.
1. Metes and bounds descriptions prepared shall at a minimum contain the following items:
a. A preamble containing the Quarter Section, Section, Township, Range, Principal Meridian (Indian or Cimarron) and the County and/ or City of the tract of land being described or a preamble containing the Lot and/or Block number, subdivision name and if available, the recording information of the plat and the City, if applicable, and County in which it is filed of record, and

I couldn't understand

Most of us in the PLSS work with within a system that is simpler to reference.

I can see all kinds of issues, particularly near the areas where the townships have common lines.

The following is excerpted from the Kansas Minimum Standards.

"Boundary Descriptions (AKA: LEGAL DESCRIPTIONS)
Descriptions defining land boundaries written for conveyance or other purposes shall be complete, providing definite and unequivocal identification of lines and boundaries thereof. The description shall contain dimensions sufficient to enable the description to be plotted and retraced and shall describe the land surveyed by either government lot, aliquot parts, quarter section, section, township, range and county; or by metes and bounds commencing with a corner marked and established in the U.S. Public Land Survey System; or if such land is located in a recorded subdivision or recorded addition thereto, then by the number or other description of that lot, block or subdivision thereof. If the parcel is described by metes and bounds it may be referenced to known lot or block corners in recorded subdivisions or additions."
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The key element under discussion here is "shall describe the land surveyed by either government lot, aliquot parts, quarter section, section, township, range and county". Note the absence of specific mention of the baseline and meridian. There is only one choice thoughout the State, so it is somewhat moot. And, as long as the range is listed as East or West, there is no doubt about where the relevant section is located. Adding the county is redundant, but, is probably helpful to non-surveyors.