Pet Peeve - Leave my @#$% CAD Files alone

Not fair to an inadequately-trained CAD tech. It's always the architect's or the Engineer's fault. They need to know exactly what their cad draftsman is doing and/or train them to do it the right way.

Of course I know you're right. The cad tech will get the blame. But you know dang well that if they were trained they could preserve the integrity of the coordinates and learn to reference it in or twist the view or whatever they need to do.

If you really want to have fun, when the contractor calls wanting control coordinates for machine control, give them to him. Claim ignorance about the designer fouling up the data.

You're correct. I've never been able to find the scapegoat rule in any profession's rules. i.e. You're responsible for what you stamp unless you can hang it on your field crews or CAD staff.

I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments. It is extremely annoying.

I am always amused/frustrated when I get plans from anyone that very easily could have been north up (even with the architects convention of having the main access at the bottom of the plan) and for some unknown reason north is down the page in some random direction.

I recently had a job where we had provided the design engineers with a fully coordinated dwg of the site detail.

During the setout process we received design plans back on three different systems.

One was our coordinate datum, another was our coordinate datum scaled to mm around (0,0) and the third was some seemingly randomly rotated and shifted version of the second one. I could handle the second one as that was a pretty simple matter of scaling back to the original but the third type was a real pain.

No wonder they had major issues with underground pipes that didn't fit when they were designing in three different coordinate systems.

This is a small site that I will be doing the stake out on, but one of my main points to the Engineer was the amount of poo that would've hit the fan if someone else tried to do layout from his site plan.

I always include a signed, sealed .pdf or a paper copy of my original drawing with the digital file. I respectfully request that it be included as a separate page in the plans that are being prepared. The .pdf cannot be altered, so if something were to be changed, the original is right there in the plan set for comparison. This policy stemmed from an incident where an architect changed a setback shown on my survey to accommodate his design. Could have been a nightmare, but I refused to stake the house.

> I always include a signed, sealed .pdf or a paper copy of my original drawing with the digital file. I respectfully request that it be included as a separate page in the plans that are being prepared. The .pdf cannot be altered, so if something were to be changed, the original is right there in the plan set for comparison. This policy stemmed from an incident where an architect changed a setback shown on my survey to accommodate his design. Could have been a nightmare, but I refused to stake the house.

You done Good JB.

I learned MANY years ago to NEVER trust an Architect. They can't even add and subtract correctly, much less handle cogo.B-)

> I always include a signed, sealed .pdf or a paper copy of my original drawing with the digital file. I respectfully request that it be included as a separate page in the plans that are being prepared. The .pdf cannot be altered, so if something were to be changed, the original is right there in the plan set for comparison. This policy stemmed from an incident where an architect changed a setback shown on my survey to accommodate his design. Could have been a nightmare, but I refused to stake the house.

:good:

It's generally "ignorance" on the designer or architect's part. They speak their "own language" and think to themselves, "I don't need to be in a coordinate system to design my thingamajig. It makes it hard sometimes to "respectfully" request that they preserve the coordinate basis especially when some of them have some kind of "superior" attitude. ("You work for me, I don't work for you". or "I am an educated designer and I know what I need, and I know I can design this thing without the use of coordinates". Those people are so often the most impossible. I guess when you "know everything" there is nothing to learn especially from a surveyor.

It is tough to come up with the right wording to inform them that you need to hold your field information and do it respectfully and get your point across clearly. I have worked with Engineers who can respect your position, but also with some that can't bend or are unwilling to have to answer to some surveyor.

"I always include a signed, sealed .pdf or a paper copy of my original drawing with the digital file."

This is a Board requirement in my State...

Same thing recently happed to me. The architect sent me back the site plan I provided them so I could lay out the house foot print. I figured I would put their line work in my collector. What should have taken me 5 minutes ended up taking me an hour at 5 am the day of lay out. Pretty frustrating.

Yes it is Jim, but sometimes it is still like pulling teeth to get an actual inked seal from anybody. CAD files, pdf's, coordinate files never a problem. But getting that inked seal copy is. They all think the scanned sealed permit set that we have to get from the local scan & print for everybody shop, will suffice.

The contrarian might argue that you did not properly define the scope and deliverable with the client. 😉

The job we are now on, we are a site contractor, in order to get the CAD file from the engineer, we(I) had to sign a release before they would send it to me.

So..... make up a release with what is and what is not acceptable to you, make them sign it and file it with the job. It is after all kind of a copyrighted work isn't it?

Jeff

sounds like what i do to everyday to surveys making septic plans, wetlands plans, and engineering plans. lol

Except when I'm done with it, it doesn't look like your survey (and the north arrow is still correct).

> ......It is after all kind of a copyrighted work isn't it...

No kind of, about it; it IS a copywrited work, and you should treat IT as such...

I've always included either a paper copy or a pdf with any digital files I release. I believe that I will follow JB's example and start requiring that my original survey be included with all plan sets and any other derivative works. Then at least my work can speak for itself.

I have no illusions that this or any other license/release type agreement will stop those who don't care or have insufficient training from monkeying with the coordinates or base drawing rotation. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't always rotate the view but when I do I use a UCS.

> It is after all kind of a copyrighted work isn't it?

With few exceptions, no. Map representation of facts on the ground isn't covered by copyright. Logos and other artistic features are, as are design concepts (e.g. the layout of a subdivision). But for most survey deliverables, copyright doesn't apply.

I went through this a few years ago when I found an architect using my topo as a backdrop for his plans. My client didn't pay for the survey, and I was unsuccessful in all the collection efforts I tried (including the use of a professional bill collector). He had handed my CAD file to the architect, so I thought I'd seek damages from the architect for copyright infringement. I started researching the matter, and very quickly learned that I didn't have a leg to stand on.

> I don't always rotate the view but when I do I use a UCS.

Careful, Dave -- you might start a religious war (UCS versus DVIEW TWIST).