SO I need some input from you experts!
I was contacted to do a survey.?ÿ They requested that I just mark one line of their property and then figure the area for their planned house to be built on.?ÿ ?ÿI told the client that I have to do a full survey of the property so I can be confident in the location of the property.?ÿ ?ÿThen I can mark the property line as requested.?ÿ ?ÿ I gave a quote.?ÿ ?ÿSo the day comes to?ÿ be able to do this survey and was asked my survey fees.?ÿ ?ÿI oblige the request.?ÿ ?ÿI arrive on site early to setup the GPS and do some early recon so I have something to start off with.?ÿ ?ÿThe client shows up and basically wants me to ignore the survey and just mark the line between two found points.?ÿ ?ÿI inverse between them and they are close and I tied to the others I found and felt somewhat confident.?ÿ ?ÿI informed the client that they are close and they agree to move forward on marking the property line.?ÿ ?ÿI ask if they want me to move on with the survey and was told no.?ÿ ?ÿJust mark the line and find the area.?ÿ So I do the work as they requested marking POL's every 50 foot.?ÿ ?ÿReturn to office and finish the office part.?ÿ ?ÿSomething told me something was up, so instead of sending all the remaining information I send the invoice for payment.?ÿ ?ÿThey agree to meet to get the remaining information and make payment via email.
This is where it gets interesting.?ÿ ?ÿNext email they refuse to pay the bill.?ÿ ?ÿWe bicker back and forth and finally I tell them that I will just remove the stakes I set and forget the bill and move on.?ÿ ?ÿThey get upset and state that they removed the stakes for me and to not go on the property.?ÿ ?ÿSO I go to the property to get my stakes and find that were pulled but that the owner put in their own stakes at the exact same location marked by me and used a different paint color.?ÿ ?ÿSo I take photos of everything.?ÿ ?ÿReturn to my office.?ÿ ?ÿStill wondering what my options are.?ÿ ?ÿI did send a certified letter with a "intent to file a lien".?ÿ ?ÿHaven't heard a word.
SO... what would you do??ÿ Hire a lawyer??ÿ ?ÿWhat laws were broken??ÿ I have my thoughts....
How much do you have into the survey? I'd avoid hiring a Lawyer. You could probably have a consulting meeting for free. Lawyers are like tar babies. They'll end up costing you more than you'll ever get out of your deadbeat client.
If you have a good signed contract, the client maybe liable for paying legal fees. Most Lawyers will give you the first meeting free. Then Katy bar the door when they get their hooks in you. I've never had much luck with liens. Usually you can't get legal fees if you sue them.
You can usually sense when you've got a bad client. I usually just negotiate a lower price with them to get rid of them. When I smell a bad one I pad the invoice and offer a discount if paid within 30 days. Most cheap skates can't pass up a discount.
You should never have told them that you intend to remove your stakes until you had already done so.
I would file a lien and would not hesitate.
Theft of services
Start with a certified letter from an attorney and give a deadline
If that fails, sue them. Most small claims courts will get you $5k max
Print your emails to show the judge and have the email app on your phone for positive proof
When it is more, get a collection agency on there heels. They will pertistently keep them busy while you get er done and move on.
If you file a lien make sure you charge the maximum interest allowed by your state. In FL if the lien is less than 5K title insurance companies will usually ignore it rather than collect for you at closing. Personally I would sue the client in small claims court. If you choose this route make sure you have all information and communication, trivial or not, with you when you appear in court. You don't need an attorney for small claims court. ?????ÿ
@flga-pls-2-2
You'll spend more time messing with small claims court than it took you to do the survey. The American Legal System is so screwed up. It's designed to make Lawyers money. Lawyers fee to draw up a new Deed $2000. Title Company's fee to draw up a new Deed $200.
I think I would have pulled their stakes out of the ground.
File a lien, the bank will get involved to finance the house and you will get your money, be sure you meet the time frames for doing it. Small claims court can be very frustrating.
I do have a lawyer I would use for this.
Mighty Moe is right. Small claims court does not prohibit lawyers and if ono side has one while the other doesn't, the odds become unfavorable.
The lien may not produce instant results, but it almost certainly will prevent the property's being sold without first satisfying the lien.?ÿ
Document everything and wait them out.
^It must be a state to state thing, I am pretty sure there are no lawyers in small claims in Washington, for example.
You told her you would forgive the bill if the stakes were pulled, now the stakes are pulled, seems to me like forgiving the bill is in order. You got played.
If you want to engage with her file the lien, retaining a lawyer would be just throwing good money after bad in my opinion.?ÿ It is also my opinion that you should be focused on your own exposure here as much as getting any dough out of the client.
Not trying to be harsh man, just sharing my thoughts.?ÿ
I would forgive the bill if the other stakes were not put in place of mine. That is a criminal action in my opinion. I thought about pulling their stakes but didn't.
Right you are. In Washington, no attorneys allowed. In NC attorneys are permitted. In one NC case I'm familiar with, a contract employee sued his employer for non payment in small claims court. The employee was represented by counsel, the employer sent his personnel director. The employee prevailed in embarrassing fashion.
I know what I'd do. Double my invoice and file a mechanic's lien. Small claims is a waste of time. Even if you get a judgement, you'll likely never collect s penny. They want to get a loan and use the property for collateral or sell they'll have to settle the lien first.?ÿ
Seems like a good lesson in collecting half up front.
Congratulations on crossing paths with professional scum bags. I imagine 208 grain Hornady ELD in .300 WM isn??t an option..... ?ÿ it may take some work to collect, but do your best to hold them accountable. They bank that you??ll just take your lumps and move on and they??ll get the service for free.?ÿ
Long ago, I worked for a guy who would lower the invoiced amount for basically anyone who came in and complained about how much it was.?ÿ I'm sure everyone in the community knew that all they had to do was complain and he would cut some off the bill.?ÿ Unfortunately, the invoices started out light to begin with.
My suggestion on what to do is to never, from this instance on, agree to lower or forget about a billed amount.
For your current situation, you can approach it in many ways.?ÿ All of which have been pointed out already and will have varying costs (money and/or time) for you.
- File a lien requires some specific steps in?ÿ some states and everything must be done properly.?ÿ If you are unsure of how to proceed, you should have an attorney take care of it for you.?ÿ Do you have to provide notice in a particular manner, what are the time frames, do you need a judgement to perfect your claim, etc...?ÿ One poster noted they would double the bill and file a lien - this would be illegal in my home state as the claimed amount is very clearly outlined as to what can be included.?ÿ This process has worked well for me the couple of times I have had to do it.
- Small claims court takes time away from concentrating on other work.?ÿ Either you or your attorney would be spending time on the matter.
- There is the potential for criminal charges of theft of services.?ÿ Depending on the invoice amount, it might range from a misdemeanor to a felony.?ÿ Also might have been negated by your agreement to remove stakes and drop bill (although the service was knowing where to put the stakes - which they still gained the advantage of).?ÿ Probably need to speak to an attorney on this one.
How much this will weigh on you is a big factor in how much your willing to spend time/money wise in following through.
I had a client that I provided too much time to.?ÿ So, I was outside the lien period for my services.?ÿ I let him know that I could not legally collect from him and fortunately for him - I'm not the type that he would need to worry about being found at the bottom of a large sinkhole over a few thousand bucks, but I would remember this instance and would make sure every surveyor I knew would know to collect in advance from him before doing anything.?ÿ A couple of years later, he actually called wanting some surveying done.?ÿ I didn't return his call and the next day I had a check for the prior work delivered to the office (which I took and cashed at his bank to make sure it was up to snuff).?ÿ Returned his call and pointed out that his business did not account for any of the previous years cash flow and I did okay, so I didn't figure I would need his business moving forward.?ÿ Life is too short to spend it dealing with people who are trying to use you (beyond normal/acceptable business interactions) if you can possibly avoid it.?ÿ He was not the last client I dumped.?ÿ Some clients are better when they aren't yours!
firing a client can sometimes be the best thing you can do.
Well.. just an update... in Colorado you have to send a certified letter of "intent to file a lien".?ÿ I've done that step and now waiting the 10 days.?ÿ ?ÿThen will probably just file the lien if nothing is done soon.?ÿ ?ÿI'm waiting for this wacko to probably come back at me with a lawsuit or something.?ÿ ?ÿ
