@jpb?ÿ
No, that problem was some time ago. Now all the CRs are on the GIS and are getting filed correctly. My new person comment was that I hoped they weren't losing sent in CRs before mine showed up.?ÿ
You are correct; we all need to do something; and keep doing it until it doesn't happen anymore. This isn't a local problem (per se), it's a local problem in Massachusetts; it's a local problem in Kansas; and it's a local problem in Washington (State).
?ÿIt's been my experience; employees with the city, gained their employment because they knew somebody, and it didn't matter that they didn't know how to do their job.
It's the people that hired them, that needs to be held accountable. We need competent people, doing what they were hired to do, efficiently; saving tax payers money. Not finding ways to spend their budget so as to get the same amount next time.
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I once visited a State Highway District office survey records counter and after a few rings on the buzzer the clerk appeared from underneath some shelving where he'd built a George Castanza style bed.?ÿ A minor infraction, harmless.
At another District office I visited the R/W engineering records counter in search of an obscure but salient "R/W Layout" worksheet. The collection dates from the 1920's to the 1960's, a wall of about 200 rolled paper/vellum sheets with color pencilwork layouts including ownership boundaries, erasures, PLSS linework, topo where relevant, long gone structures, ditches, culverts, orchards, parenthetical notations, etc.; some were 25 feet by 48 inches.?ÿ They are essentially a record of existing conditions?ÿ prior to R/W acquisition.?ÿ
They were stored in roll cubbies with a numbered tag affixed to the exposed end.?ÿ Turns out the tag number to Route/Postmile index was solely contained in an "Index Book" which was lost about a decade earlier and many tags had fallen off.?ÿ He said they were working on re-indexing them so I asked to review the index in progress.?ÿ Well, they hadn't?ÿ started re-indexing them because of no funding and he bluntly told me I should be requesting the latest "official" R/W map for my locale for accurate information like the other surveyors do; the worksheets mean nothing now(?).?ÿ
He also said they were considering throwing the collection in the dumpster to make room and told me I was welcome to come in and hand search which would of course take days.?ÿ Sad and I realized that sometimes historical collections are not best preserved by the gov'm'nt if they don't further their agenda and wrote a letter to the head of the R/W Engineering Dept. (the clerk is not the decision maker) suggesting either budget a re-indexing project or donate the collection to a library, museum or historical society, but *do not* throw them in the dumpster!?ÿ Didn't even get the courtesy of a response.
@dougie?ÿ
Yep!
I agree.
Except I was hired not being from the area, knowing anyone, only because I was willing to be paid poorly to be a mentee and now the mentor is gone, I'm actively looking for a new position elsewhere.
I do the best work I can Everytime, but I'm an outlier to say the least.
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Not a good situation there, but I hope you didn't blame the clerk. He isn't a surveyor and can't be expected to understand the importance of the old plats unless some one explained it to him. Then, even if he understands the importance, you can't expect him to spend his time on something that a few surveyors request a few times a year when there are other things that are also undone that people need every day.?ÿ
It's easy to set priorities when you only have one. Even you were not willing to spend the time to do the work, and you were not spending tax dollars to do it.?ÿ
The right place to take your concerns is to the people who set priorities and appropriate money.?ÿ
@aliquot Um, the Cliff Notes concerning the situation:
- I did not blame or deride the clerk.
- I took my concerns to the Dept. Head, who ignored me.
I may have problems making myself clear on this site; a colleague recently chided me for posts that were too long, too verbose and promulgated thread drift.?ÿ I'll work on making my posts Twitter sized but gosh, there's so many bees buzzing in my head, and, being retired, I've got the time to pen exactly what I think even if it takes a half hour to compose it. It's a disease but I'm working on it. ????
The right place to take your concerns is to the people who set priorities and appropriate money.?ÿ
bureaucracy is funny like that:
No surprise there.?ÿ Most politicians have no clue about the job they are elected to.?ÿ It is all about establishing a base to run their political machine out of.?ÿ They also have an ample supply of jobs to trade for favors.?ÿ?ÿThey are politicians, any office will do.?ÿ
I feel your pain.?ÿ Probably about half of the town clerks (who I've visited), in VT and MA don't know that it's their job to keep and know about these records.?ÿ And half of the ones who do, don't have decent accessible records.?ÿ Leaving about a quarter who have great records, and even a few who have mind-blowing organized records with information you didn't expect to find, and other tidbits you only dream about.
Many when told that it is actually the clerk's job to keep and maintain these records say something along the lines that no one ever told them that, and the last clerk just left on a friday, never said anything about that, and no one else has ever asked.?ÿ But would I like the number of the DPW?
@jph?ÿ
I just got an email from the clerk and the assessor. They said they forwarded my message to the DPW. No kidding!
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When you're just looking for road layout description and/or acceptance records, town meeting records, etc, then it's the clerk.?ÿ And if they just look at you blankly, or try to send you to someone else, then they're not knowing or doing their job.
Try doing research in the Virgin Islands. You guys have no idea how good you have it. The index of recorded surveys is not available to the public. I can ask for a survey, but I can't tell what to ask for and often don't get it when I do ask. The index is only available to the "Public Surveyor" who is an engineer, not a surveyor who also reviews all new surveys and operates his own surveying business. And there is no FOI act here.?ÿ?ÿ
@jph?ÿ
The official duties of a certain elected official should be available to the public.?ÿ Find those statutes to discover what they say.?ÿ Most elected officials have done things above and beyond what is listed.?ÿ That does not obligate the next person in that position to do anything more than what is specifically listed.
We encountered a situation a few years back that was really bad.?ÿ There are around fifty minor taxing entities in our county.?ÿ The budgets require a total of from $1000 to $30,000 per year.?ÿ Most expenses are somewhat fixed so the numbers change little from year to year.?ÿ Everyone administering these entities is a volunteer, with many being older than 75.?ÿ The budget preparation process is messy and most of the volunteers cannot handle that preparation.?ÿ For decades the County Clerk asked the treasurer of each entity how many dollars to put in the budget and then did the magic to get the paperwork prepared correctly.?ÿ Then, a fairly new County Clerk discovered that specific function was not listed in the duties of his office.?ÿ Suddenly, all of those entities were searching for someone to do this as they knew they couldn't do it.?ÿ There is now a new County Clerk who will not assist these entities because she doesn't know how to do it, herself.
Cool story, Cow, but town clerks in VT and MA are supposed to be able to tell you whether a road is public or private, and also their layout and acceptance information.?ÿ That's the way it is.?ÿ I'm not asking for them to do anything more than look the info up or provide me with their book with that info.?ÿ If not them, then who?
@jph?ÿ
You are correct. The Town Clerk's responsibilities are described in detail. I am contemplating sending them along with another persistent request before beginning my survey. There are just so many times being referred to the assessor and the highway department...
Here is the cover and a link to the archived document. It is not a searchable format. The business about highways begins on page 271 and is very detailed. In all, it is well written. It would do the Town Clerk good to read it.
https://archive.org/details/manualfortowncle02powe
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Of course you're right. Nepotism is the preferred method of selecting qualified people.?ÿ Or maybe that only occurs in privately owned companies.
Of course you're right. Nepotism is the preferred method of selecting qualified people.?ÿ Or maybe that only occurs in privately owned companies.
It definitely applies in small town circumstances.?ÿ If you know there will be a certain job opening, and you know someone (including a relative) who could do that job, you notify them ahead of any public posting.?ÿ Sometimes the only willing and capable applicant turns out to be a relative.
It certainly happens less in American goverment than it does in private companies. We have rules against that...
