I've been junior party chiefing for a few months and Surveying total for about 2 and a half years. Most of my knowledge comes from construction staking, and the occasional boundary/topo but MAN its different when you're on the other side of the instrument or GPS.
This past Thursday, the day before a 3 day weekend, I was given a job that I had been to a few times before so I had no worries. Yet, I forgot, it rained the day before and this job site is full of unpacked fill dirt.
The job was to stake a detention pond, which I've done multiple times before, but this time was different. Started on the far West side of the pond, and it wasn't too bad. As I got to the 1/4 way point of the South side of the pond, the muddy unpacked fill dirt started to get the best of me. Every step was me sucked in to my knees in this sh*t! I made my way through it for about 10-12 more points, (each about 100 ft apart), before I made the call to the boss that there was no way this was going to get staked accurately, and efficiently.
My question is, for all your PC's with more experience in that position, what would your call have been in this situation? Should I have called it sooner? Should I have staked it anyways? I'm not someone to not at least give it "the college try" out there, but when it gets impossible to walk, and impossible to set my hubs and sticks to the required accuracy(Heights included), what should the next step have been?
I would try to discuss it with the man in charge on site if anyone could be found on site.
Brad Ott, post: 325951, member: 197 wrote: I would try to discuss it with the man in charge on site if anyone could be found on site.
Well, the GC on site left at noon for the day, and I was already told before I went that this guy wasn't too happy with us because they couldn't get any of our crews out there sooner.
Ah the unhappy GC. Personally with 8 years experience in construction staking it's simple. If you can't do the job accurately AND safely due to hazardous and/or unprepared site conditions, than the call is simple, you make the call to wait. Your work is a representation of you and your company. The situation you described just leaves the door open when you slog through and put everything in sub part for an already pissed off GC to slam you and your company more.
Just my opinion
I believe you made the correct call. I've been doing this for 20 years, in the field most of the time for the last 13 years making those types of decisions. There are some Superintendents that are great, and have a good understanding, and some you cannot make happy, whatever you do.
I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten the call at 10 or 11 AM, that they absolutely had to have me that afternoon, and if I could not make it there, the job was going to come to a screeching halt. I would shuffle things around if I could, and put in what they requested. Then on my next trip a few days later, those emergency stakes were there, mostly untouched.
SAFETY and accuracy are paramount. I've been stuck in the mud at a landfill up to my knees, and had to have help to get out, it is scary, and you could get seriously hurt. If those stakes cannot be put in where they are accurate, they will be pointing the finger at you for incorrect staking, and not want to pay.
Get her done. Die on the job. IT's what surveyors do!
(J/K)
If it is that muddy, my bet is nobody works in there this week. You can bet the GC will not drive his shiny pickup into that muck.
I would have offered to set offset points, if it was reasonable.
Man, some times you just have to use your own good judgment. I've come close to needing to be rescued by the fire department under similar conditions, and all for nothing. The dirt people couldn't work that muck anyway until it dried out. My PC at the time said 'Go!', and like an idiot, I did. Took about a dozen sheets of plywood laid across the mud to rescue my sorry butt after I sank to my waist in water saturated clay.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
First off, you are the professional here. Not the GC. You make the call if the stakes that you set for his project will be stable enough for them to do their job. I suspect that if you are sinking up to your knees that a 12" hub will not survive the weekend where you put it. Gotta ask yourself if the hub moves and this (fill in the blank) gets built according to it, will my company be responsible for damages?
Secondly, stuck up to your knees in mud that may be moving is not a safe position to be in. If you were working alone, God help you.
If you are unsure of anything in the field and you have to make a judgement call, take pictures, get testimony from others about the conditions and get the heck out of there.
Dan
I think i would find the lead machine operaror and find out what he needs in the near term. There's a pretty good chance the gc is talking to him.
If they're just building one large berm that will be one thing, if they're excavating some for this detention pond that'll be another factor.
If you can't walk on it, you can't set stakes on it!
Nope. I'd have walked it and found out it wasn't happening.
To be fair, I'm the one the GC would call and gripe about the crew to. When I was a chief, I understood the chain of command and did as I was told, within reason.
You did well. You can't stake that which is unstable.
I thoroughly appreciate all the responses, gentleman. It was for a detention pond, and it was just flat out unstakeable. Tough to make such a call when you know the chief of parties has an eagle eye.
Chalking it up to inexperience that day, and further knowledge for the future. Just my luck, I'm scheduled back there tomorrow so let's hope it not nearly as improbable as last week!
Williwaw, post: 325989, member: 7066 wrote: Man, some times you just have to use your own good judgment. I've come close to needing to be rescued by the fire department under similar conditions, and all for nothing. The dirt people couldn't work that muck anyway until it dried out. My PC at the time said 'Go!', and like an idiot, I did. Took about a dozen sheets of plywood laid across the mud to rescue my sorry butt after I sank to my waist in water saturated clay.
I had a Rodman, once, that fell into a ditch full of pig excrement. The only thing that saved him was the rod he was carrying. It was a hot, dry summer day and the top of the stuff was dry and looked like dirt; it wasn't.
He had to eat his lunch outside the truck that day.......
Been there done that - something that I have done is
simply walk around as close as I can and put a point in the ground with point number on it
take a side shot. Plot it in the office and figure an offset, grade or whatever you need
send a worksheet & grade sheet and tell the client why and what you did.
Dave K
[sarcasm]They gave you a chainman for those situations. You should have had him dig down to solid dirt at each stake location and then set it. If you are a one man crew, you are supposed to have 6' long 2x2s that you drive to point of refusal. Losing boots in the mud is part of the job. Get used to it.[/sarcasm]
We were once working around what had been a wax plant several decades earlier. The rod man was giving shots on either side of a very small drainage ditch. Thanks to a minor obstacle between us I asked him to move about one foot to his left. He did, then promptly went straight down about three feet with his left leg. As above, there was a solid crust that appeared to be typical soil......it wasn't.....and it turned out it wasn't solid either. It was a couple days after Thanksgiving. Lucky for him he was wearing long johns and the survey chariot heater worked quite well because his jeans rode home in the far back. Also, lucky for him, I decided that was enough shots for the day.
I've been there, too. I've had to be dug out of the mud of a recently drained pond by a trackhoe because I got in so deep there was not getting out on my own. If I were in your situation I would call my boss and to explain and ask if it absolutely had to be done today. The fact is if it's that muddy, they can't get equipment in there either, so the stakes are useless until it dries out. However, if your boss is trying to satisfy the client, he may want as much done as possible.
This could have been you!
http://www.northjersey.com/news/worker-rescued-from-waist-deep-mud-in-north-arlington-1.1360673