Something really ground my gears the other day while out surveying a few weeks back. I was out in the field with my chainman on a beautiful day in Seattle (Rare, I know). I was setting up on one of our p.k. nails when I happen to see another company's crew nearby. The two were as-builting some sewer manholes and got onto the one near my setup.
Now maybe growing up in Alaska working for my dad's survey company taught me different, but when we ran into another surveyor--we always went out of our way to introduce ourselves and just say hi. These guys were robots, no emotion--just blank stares. I stuck my hand out to say hello, and it was not very easy for them to take a 5 second break to say "howdy." They shook my hand but without even saying their names or making eye contact.
I felt I was back in high school when we'd run into our crosstown rival football enemies. We would act tough and pretend we didn't know each other.
I'm not the most social of human beings, just was falling back to being courteous to those in our profession. You other owners out there, teach your young bucks to be proud to be surveyors; but also tell them to shake a hand like a man to other surveyors they meet.
Rant over.
Ken
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I share your sentiments Ken.
One thing I try and impress on others in my learning experience is this very thing.
Also not to burn bridges unless unavoidable.
One never knows when paths may cross again and a bad past experience not handled well can make for very awkward moments in such times.
I'm not sure how many times I've encountered a meeting that involved a dialogue from wayback, and with greying and receding hair it takes more than a visual appearance to know you've met up with an old foe or warrior you crossed paths with some distant eons ago.
Were they well seasoned?
Well if they won't introduce themselves, look a man in the eye, and shake his hand that's the fault of their father...I didn't take them to raise. OTOH I don't I'd hire some kid that stares at his feet and mumbles when you talk to him.
Looking at the bigger picture, researchers like Robert Putnam (in his famous book http://bowlingalone.com&apos ;">Bowling Alone) have been warning us for decades that https://www.hks.harvard.edu/programs/saguaro/about-social-capital&apos ;">social capital is declining at an alarming rate. Americans are becoming so atomitized that they don't recognize areas of inherent connection between people and the value thereof. I was at a surveyor's society quarterly general membership meeting last week. Ten to fifteen years ago a meeting at the same venue would regularly draw 100+ people, there were less than fifty. And I don't think it's the economy, firms that used to fill a table don't show up anymore even though they've doubled in size since 2006.
But it's not just surveyors. In 1964 the US population was 191 million and the PTA had 12 million national members. Now it's 325 million but the PTA membership is less than 4 million. I can't speak for everywhere, but around here service organizations like Kiwanis, Rotary, and the Lions Club are disappearing, fraternal organizations are selling off their property, no one attends local government meetings unless it's to stop something being built in their backyard. And the backyard is important because everyone is closed off back there instead of on their front porch where they can interact with their neighbors
http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/03/front-porch-republic/
Rant over...I'm taking my coffee out to the front porch. 😉
party chef, post: 428284, member: 98 wrote: Were they well seasoned?
No, it didn't appear to be.
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When I hear a story like this; it makes me think that they are a production crew. They need to get so many manholes dipped in a day or the boss will want to know why.
I know that's not a good excuse to be rude. But they might be worried about keeping their jobs...
That poster, RADAR; sure is a swell guy.
Sometimes crews are instructed not to talk to anyone due to the sensitive nature of the project. Disclosing even the company name, let alone the name of the client or the nature of the project, can invite unwelcome attention.
Jim Frame, post: 428294, member: 10 wrote: Sometimes crews are instructed not to talk to anyone due to the sensitive nature of the project. Disclosing even the company name, let alone the name of the client or the nature of the project, can invite unwelcome attention.
That is when the opportunity to be creative and have fun arises. We are putting in an amusement park, you know, "for the kids."
Jim Frame, post: 428294, member: 10 wrote: Sometimes crews are instructed not to talk to anyone due to the sensitive nature of the project. Disclosing even the company name, let alone the name of the client or the nature of the project, can invite unwelcome attention.
Yeah I've given and got those instructions before. That wasn't it though.
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After your spirit is broken you stop worrying about stuff like this.
I always stop and introduce myself, you never know when the hand you shake may be your next employee or employer.........
Those guys will now have a hard time calling you if they need something like control info or maybe a job. Always be friendly, we are in our region.
Given their apparently recent entree into the industry they must not have developed a sense of solidarity with their fellow surveyor. I have found a wide range of reactions to greeting other field hands in the wild, ranging from eager to drop everything and chat for a good long while to the cold shoulder.
Social Intelligence is not always the strength of our fellows in the profession, which in all does make for a more interesting cast of characters.
I worked for an outfit in the late seventies with six to eight crews. Within a mile radius of our office there were three other firms with similar sized survey departments. We all could choke the parking lots of the local donut shops on rainy mornings with pickups and vans when we had our 'social hour'.
Sad to hear that some boneheads won't at least share a name with others. I'd probably send their boss a sympathy card...for real.
Two years ago I was down shooting the thread of a creek downtown, client's back line fell across the other side by 20-30 feet. PC from a crew doing work on the adjoiner across the creek comes over and sets his robot up about 5 feet from ours. Then walks over to me and says I'm not authorized to be down there. That the creek is a navigable waterways and therefore public land and they have a permit to exclusive access due to asbestos removal or whatever.
I told him he was wrong on all fronts and that I was authorized by my client to be on his property to survey it.
The next words out of his mouth were "I'm gonna have to call the cops then."
First I laughed. Then I gave him my standard issue response to that statement: "go ahead, and you better do it now."
I neither threatened nor implied anything by that, but he was at least sharp enough to strike his robot and go back across the creek. Pretty soon his boss comes waddling down and tries to give me the standard issue GC patronizing BS. I pulled out my card, started reciting off deed history, navigable waterways definitions and specific city paperwork relative to the navigability of this very creek, and then asked him if he had proper right of entry for being on my client's property.
Worked pretty much unimpeded all day after that.
Calling the cops on another surveyor is nadir-ballpark behavior as far as I'm concerned.
I say hi to all of them. Even if I'm driving by I'll at least roll down my window and yell at them to get real jobs
ken, post: 428276, member: 1548 wrote: These guys were robots, no emotion--just blank stares. I stuck my hand out to say hello, and it was not very easy for them to take a 5 second break to say "howdy." They shook my hand but without even saying their names or making eye contact.
This seems par for the course in Seattle, regardless of the occasion. Every time I'd introduce myself, I'd be met with a puzzled stare as though I just backed I've their dog.
The Seattle freeze is real, even in professional (or what should be professional) situations.
Also, if the crew you met is from the firm I think they are - then they were definitely on a timer and would have to answer from why they didn't finish the job by 3PM.
ken, post: 428276, member: 1548 wrote: Something really ground my gears the other day while out surveying a few weeks back. I was out in the field with my chainman on a beautiful day in Seattle (Rare, I know). I was setting up on one of our p.k. nails when I happen to see another company's crew nearby. The two were as-builting some sewer manholes and got onto the one near my setup.
Now maybe growing up in Alaska working for my dad's survey company taught me different, but when we ran into another surveyor--we always went out of our way to introduce ourselves and just say hi. These guys were robots, no emotion--just blank stares. I stuck my hand out to say hello, and it was not very easy for them to take a 5 second break to say "howdy." They shook my hand but without even saying their names or making eye contact.
I felt I was back in high school when we'd run into our crosstown rival football enemies. We would act tough and pretend we didn't know each other.
I'm not the most social of human beings, just was falling back to being courteous to those in our profession. You other owners out there, teach your young bucks to be proud to be surveyors; but also tell them to shake a hand like a man to other surveyors they meet.
Rant over.
Ken
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That surely is unprofessional, had they been cordial it could have led to some sort of relationship and you maybe have even been able to offer up some information that they didn't have.
That sort of thing sickens me, I have been abroad or vacationing domestically when I come across crews and approach who I regard as my brothers/sisters in casual conversation if safety allows it. Most companies are competing against another but there is never a need for the lack of common respect.
I hope this experience does not jade you from approaching your other brothers/sisters in the field.
Trundle, post: 428320, member: 12120 wrote: This seems par for the course in Seattle, regardless of the occasion. Every time I'd introduce myself, I'd be met with a puzzled stare as though I just backed I've their dog.
The Seattle freeze is real, even in professional (or what should be professional) situations.Also, if the crew you met is from the firm I think they are - then they were definitely on a timer and would have to answer from why they didn't finish the job by 3PM.
Yeah it was from a crew on the sweat shop outfits. But I was in a place like that years ago, but still had time for other surveyors.
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paden cash, post: 428311, member: 20 wrote: I worked for an outfit in the late seventies with six to eight crews. Within a mile radius of our office there were three other firms with similar sized survey departments. We all could choke the parking lots of the local donut shops on rainy mornings with pickups and vans when we had our 'social hour'.
Sad to hear that some boneheads won't at least share a name with others. I'd probably send their boss a sympathy card...for real.
I thought the same and had the opportunity to do so, but not worth it.
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