LF Tips on setting up a precision prism carrier/ traverse kit with level vial on tripod efficiently

Answer:

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Just keep setting it up.?ÿ in all terrain and situations.?ÿ Learn the frozen ground tricks of the trade, not tricks at all but empirical data from tried and true usage. Similar for sand, or mud or slippery surfaces.

Are you taking a class in surveying looking for answers??ÿ?ÿ

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There is a counterintuitive technique that I use. After setting the tripod down over the point and stepping on the legs, use the leveling screws to point the optical plumb sight on the carrier at the point. The carrier wonƒ??t be level. Next adjust the leg lengths to level the carrier. Surprisingly it wonƒ??t move optical sight off the point much at all. Finally loosen the carrier and slide it to the point and then fine adjust the level. You always chase leveling and centering around each other, but I find that this reduces that chase.?ÿ

1. Practice

2. Practice

3. Practice

It's really all about being able to judge how to get the legs at the correct width with the tripod head close to level, and the center of the head reasonably close to over the mark. That's practice more than anything else. Once you are able to do that quickly, the rest comes pretty easily, but this is where technique is a bit more important.

Like Larry mentioned, one of the bigger mistakes I see is putting the tribrach on the tripod, then immediately trying to level it.

Don't. Look through the plummet or laser and first use the levelling screws to point the crosshairs/dot at the mark on the ground. (Make sure the screws are all at the neutral position to start.)

Then begin to level the tribrach with the tripod legs; because you are already pointed at the mark, as you adjust the legs, the head will "pivot around" the mark itself.

Once the tribrach is adjusted with the legs (bubble in center of circle), lock the legs and fine-tune the tribrach.

Thanks for asking about this because thereƒ??s nothing more aggravating than finding a cliff hanger on flat ground (tribrach hanging over the edge of the tripod head).

before beginning, center the tribrach screws and center it on the tripod head.

1. extend the legs so that the head is roughly level (adjusting for the slope of the ground).

2. Become a bombardier, with the head of the tripod against your chest guess is over the point, just roughly approximate.

3. look in the optical plummet and swing the target cross hair over the nail or pipe or rebar or whatever it is. Somewhere on the nail head is good.

4 at this point the tripod head shouldnƒ??t be too far off level and it should be close.

5. Set the tripod feet but donƒ??t tighten the screws yet (quick release levers down-engaged).

6. Look in plummet and turn the tribrach screws to bring the cross hair centered on the nail.

7. Level the bubble by sliding the legs up and down. You can tell which leg by looking at the bubble.

8. look in plummet, if more than a little off, I turn foot screws to recenter then relevel the legs. This is an iterative process. The goal is to minimize the need to move the tribrach.

9. finally, tighten the tripod screws, find tune the level, slide the tribrach over the point without turning or twisting it.

The surveying culture I grew in was everything has to be done in 5 milliseconds but I have learned over the decades that if you slow down and take time to do things correctly it will save a lot of trouble later.

take times to put things away, donƒ??t throw the muddy shovel in the backseat on top of the chiefƒ??s briefcase because putting it away properly takes 15 seconds OMG. that sort of thing.

Study other chiefs setting up and determine what works for you. Ultimately, it takes practice and experience to become more efficient. Just donƒ??t get in too much of a hurry and risk blowing a setup. Iƒ??ve always told my apprentice not to worry about how fast they can set up because weƒ??re more concerned with accuracy than speed.?ÿ

Follow Dave Karoly method, but at item 2 if you want assurance, drop a small stone to check head is near enough plumb. If it isn't move ALL THREE legs by same amount for distance head needs to move (that way if the head was near enough level at the start it will stay level. The follow rest of Dave's procedure.

Oh! don't forget to measure target height while you are feeling pleased with yourself for setting up in record time.

here's my setup from the frozen melty frozen day....

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every setup is similar but very different. repetition and consistency is the key, and mistakes learned from propelling you forward.

if you're not making mistakes you're not doing anything....

you're going to be just fine

Once I am set up in the snow I cover the feet with snow, it keeps the sun from heating them up and melting out of level.?ÿ

One quick tip that always work for me was when first extending the legs out is to bring the plate up to your chin with the feet on the ground (tripod still folded in). This usually results in the eye piece of the instrument being close to the height of your eye when set up...this really made a difference back in the day with manual total stations when you knew you would be setup at one place for a couple hours.

I had an IM with a super power. He would spread the legs around the point. Horizon level the head over the point, stamp in the feet. Screw on the instrument, level it and do a slight adjustment to it.

He never had to swing any legs, never had to get over the point. He only had to place the tripod up and the head was centered and plumb over the point.?ÿ I never saw anyone else that could do it, I sure can't.?ÿ

Levelling up is always sort of a fidgity business, and doing it with ultra sensitive prism carrier just makes it more so. This is really never going to be a particularly efficient operation.?ÿ?ÿ

Once I am set up in the snow I cover the feet with snow, it keeps the sun from heating them up and melting out of level.?ÿ

I set up yesterday in an icy spot. There wasn't any snow near but there were lots of rocks so I piled them around the legs hoping it would help with the ice.

Nope!!

After a couple of hours I made my way back to the base and it had drifted. Not enough to ruin what I'd done (I estimate .02-.03'), but snow packed around the feet would have prevented it.?ÿ

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once had a whip antennae on a 15ƒ?? rod blow over and tug the base just enough to pick it up off the point and set it off to the side a foot or two. Luckily was far enough away to lose radio so didnƒ??t get any bad shots. Also close to the truck too so just jumped in the truck and went to check on it.?ÿ

We have so easy with these new adjustable leg tripods. As late as early 1980ƒ??s I was setting up with a stiff leg tripod. On a stone wall it might take a half hour of piling rocks to make a place to put the legs.?ÿ

@gary_g?ÿ

ditto, but this setup was freezing and thawing due to 40 degree temp swings, so I went with the sure thing of 2x2 hubs driven to grade.?ÿ they're firmly cemented in place for the remainder of the project now

@jitterboogie sounds like it should work good. Ever notice how much the instrument level changes with the temp change?

@on_point?ÿ

every single setup. Wind, moisture, heat, cold, stupid kids grabbing the legs, etc....

with the Leica gear esp when they're displaying gon, the changes are often funny and fascinating

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I had an IM with a super power. He would spread the legs around the point. Horizon level the head over the point, stamp in the feet. Screw on the instrument, level it and do a slight adjustment to it.

He never had to swing any legs, never had to get over the point. He only had to place the tripod up and the head was centered and plumb over the point.?ÿ I never saw anyone else that could do it, I sure can't.?ÿ

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He should be in the circus with an act like that

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Thank you everyone for sharing your experience and wisdom! your comments have been tremendously helpful.

For a bit of background info I've been learning the trade for coming up on six years working for my uncle who is an LS with over 40 years of experience. I had no education prior to that. Truthfully I didn't even know what he did for work. He was in his early sixties at the time and winding down. At that point he was down to a one-man show after decades of large projects with several crews. He called me up one day to see if I wanted to help him in the office a couple days a week. My only useful skill at that point was I was decent with computers (I had a freelance job revolving around fixing them and helping people learn to use them). That first week I think I worked just the two days, but that was the only time. Every week since I've been working full-time learning all the aspects of the business both field and office. I guess he decided he enjoys working too much to retire, because he's ramped back up again hiring people and taking on massive projects. I typically did title surveys with his and office drafting. He taught me how to set up the tripod and plumb the instrument over it forever ago. Whatever random order I did things in was deemed acceptable aside from the occasional comment on a particular slow setup here and there. For what he and I did the precise carriers were very rarely used, they were typically for the crews doing construction work. Prior to my making this post I think I only had to play a role in setting them up on one project and I did it acceptably, but without any sort of system, just a billion random adjustments.

I was told the Friday before making this post I would be subbing in as the i-man for our top crew chief. This guy is THE guy. He'll never have to worry about employment because there there are so many companies that would love to have him, but he likes working for our company?ÿ and we pay him very well for his skills. Anyway, I was to be working with him one-on-one for the first time and needless to say I was very anxious to not come across as incompetent. So I took an extra set of legs, a tribrach, and a carrier home for the weekend and reached out to all of you fine folk. After reading I got to practicing. It was odd at first unlearning whatever methods I'd acquired, but you guys have this down to a science.?ÿ?ÿ

I want to mention some of the bits that stood out as particularly useful for me personally.

2. Become a bombardier, with the head of the tripod against your chest guess is over the point, just roughly approximate.

This is an absolutely phenomenal tip and something I'm embarrassed I've never thought of. I always positioned the tripod over the point at arms length and it usually worked okay, but there's too much variation in that. This way you can get way more consistent results by having it at your chest and looking down through it.?ÿ

There is a counterintuitive technique that I use. After setting the tripod down over the point and stepping on the legs, use the leveling screws to point the optical plumb sight on the carrier at the point. The carrier wonƒ??t be level. Next adjust the leg lengths to level the carrier. Surprisingly it wonƒ??t move optical sight off the point much at all. Finally loosen the carrier and slide it to the point and then fine adjust the level. You always chase leveling and centering around each other, but I find that this reduces that chase.?ÿ

I was aware of using the tribrach screws to help position the crosshairs of the OP over the point, but was told that's more of something down when you're struggling with problematic, unlevel terrain. I also used it to occasionally salvage a "cliffhanger" scenario when I botched the earlier steps and couldn't get the instrument over the point without sliding it way to the side. This method, especially for a precise carrier and especially for a precise carrier with an inverted OP is a game-changer for me. I also want mention that having one particular tribrach screw in directly facing your chest as a reference point when making all adjustments helps tremendously because now adjusting that one or the other two together makes the crosshair move "up/down" or "left/right" along the "y" and "x" axes in way that's prevents disorientation.?ÿ

Once I am set up in the snow I cover the feet with snow, it keeps the sun from heating them up and melting out of level.?ÿ

This is a wonderful idea. Something I don't deal with often, but I have used this in the past and it's worth reminding people. Similar principal works on asphalt. Dirt, water, reflective paint, or anything handy to keep the areas under the feet cool help with it sinking on hot days, especially if the asphalt is new.?ÿ

Follow Dave Karoly method, but at item 2 if you want assurance, drop a small stone to check head is near enough plumb. If it isn't move ALL THREE legs by same amount for distance head needs to move (that way if the head was near enough level at the start it will stay level. The follow rest of Dave's procedure.

Oh! don't forget to measure target height while you are feeling pleased with yourself for setting up in record time.

Moving all three legs instead of just one is something I've often forgot about chasing the bubble. This is a great tip to keep in mind.?ÿ

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Also the tip about setting hubs under the feet if it's going to be there for awhile and the ground is thawing is a damn good idea. It also aids in placing the feet if you're coming back to that points.?ÿ

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Again, than you all so much. I've read all the comments and will continue to do so and spend more time perusing the forums. I feel much more confident about my setups now and that's a bit less anxiety for me and I greatly appreciate that.?ÿ

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