Your work ethic and demeanor sound like you would be a welcome addition to any outfit in any jurisdiction.
The union(s) is (are) strong here, but I'm not aware of any union shops with professional Architects, Engineers, or Surveyors in Michigan, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
Here are some details for PS licensing in MI.
Law/Statute:
Link:
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Long Form:
OCCUPATIONAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 299 of 1980
339.2004 Architect, professional engineer, and professional surveyor; licensing requirements.
Sec. 2004.
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And Rules:
Link:
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Long Form:
PART 2. EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, AND EXAMINATIONS
R 339.17201 Educational requirements.
Rule 201. An applicant for a professional surveyor license shall provide 1 of the following to satisfy the educational requirements under the code:
(a) Transcripts verifying that the applicant received a baccalaureate degree or higher degree in a surveying program accredited by any of the following:
(i) The Engineering Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and?ÿ Technology, Inc. (EAC/ABET).
(ii) The Engineering Technology Accreditation Commission of ABET (ETAC/ABET).
(iii) The Applied and Natural Science Accreditation Commission of ABET (ANSAC/ABET).
(b) A National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) credentials evaluation that verifies the applicant received a baccalaureate degree or higher degree and satisfies the NCEES surveying core program requirements found in the NCEES Surveying Education Standard.
(c) A credentials evaluation that verifies the applicant received a baccalaureate degree or higher degree in surveying from an educational program that is substantially equivalent to a baccalaureate degree or higher degree program that is accredited by EAC/ABET, ETAC/ABET, or ANSAC/ABET. The credentials evaluation must be generated by a company that is a current member of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES).
R 339.17202 Professional surveying experience; verification; educational credit for experience.
Rule 202.
(1) Under section 2004(3)(a) of the code, MCL 339.2004, an applicant for a professional surveyor license shall document at least 8 years of professional experience in professional surveying, including not more than 5 years of education. An applicant shall satisfy the requirements of this rule to receive credit for professional experience.
(2) Professional surveying work that is performed while under the supervision of a?ÿ professional surveyor who is licensed or registered in this state or another state and involves work in 1 or more of the following areas qualifies as professional experience:
(a) Providing professional services such as consultation, investigation, testimony, evaluation, planning, mapping, assembling, and interpreting reliable scientific measurements and information relative to the location, size, shape, or physical features of the earth,?ÿ improvements on the earth, the space above the earth, or any part of the earth, and the utilization and development of these facts and interpretations into an orderly survey map,?ÿ plan, report, description, or project.
(b) Land surveying, which is the surveying of an area for its correct determination or description for its conveyance or for the establishment or reestablishment of a land boundary and the designing or design coordination of the plotting of land and the subdivision of land.
(c) Geodetic surveying, which includes surveying for a determination of the size and shape of the earth, both horizontally and vertically, and the precise positioning of points on the earth utilizing angular and linear measurements through spatially oriented spherical geometry.
(d) Utilizing and managing land information systems through the establishment of datums and local coordinate systems and points of reference.
(e) Engineering and architectural surveying for design and construction layout of infrastructure.
(f) Cartographic surveying for the making of maps, including topographic and hydrographic mapping.
(3) An applicant for a professional surveyor license shall provide to the department 1 of the following to receive credit for professional experience:
(a) Proof acceptable to the department verifying that the applicant has obtained not less than 4 years of experience practicing as a licensed or registered professional surveyor in another state.
(b) All of the following:
(i) The dates of performing work that satisfies the requirements under subrule (2) of this rule.
(ii) The supervising individual??s name, license or registration number, and state in which the supervising individual is licensed or registered as a professional surveyor.
(iii) Documentation from the supervising individual attesting to the work experience,?ÿ supervision, and the dates of work and supervision.
(4) The department shall grant not more than 5 years of professional experience in
professional surveying to an applicant holding a degree that satisfies the requirements
under R 339.17201. Credit must be granted in the following amounts:
(a) Not more than 4 years of professional experience must be granted for a baccalaureate degree. Experience must be granted for only 1 baccalaureate degree.
(b) Not more than 1 year of professional experience must be granted for a postbaccalaureate degree. Experience must be granted for only 1 post-baccalaureate degree.
R 339.17203 Examination requirements.
Rule 203. An applicant for a professional surveyor license shall satisfy all the following examination requirements under the code:
(a) Achieve a passing score on the Fundamentals of Surveying Examination
administered by NCEES. A passing score on the exam must be determined by NCEES.
(b) Achieve a passing score on the Principles and Practice of Surveying Examination administered by NCEES. A passing score on the exam must be determined by NCEES.
(c) Achieve a passing score on the Michigan Professional Surveying Examination. A passing score on the exam must be determined by the department??s chosen administrator of the exam.
thanks for the info. It is every bit of overwhelming at the moment, but I appreciate it.
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im not at all hung up on working union. As long as I feel I??m fairly compensated, I??m happy.
I figured that Michigan doesn??t have a unionized surveying industry. There??s only something like 700 union surveyors in Southern California. So I figured the Michigan scene is much much smaller in scope. Then again I really don??t know anything about the work going on in Michigan. Can someone work full time there as a surveyor? Office I presume, but field??ÿ
Just being able to work, afford a home, be near family and friends. That??s all I want. I??d like to become licensed and carve out a good career in Michigan, if that??s in the cards. But it may not be.
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I had a Party Chief many years ago that did the same exact thing to me. He didn??t have a medical issue but he would literally crack the window just enough to hear me reading the level or calling angles and distance for the field book. I was young and bit my tong for about 2 years. During that time I stopped calling out numbers to him and began keeping and reducing all the level runs the traverse and calculating everything why he slept. I would bring my field book to him and bang on the window to wake him up so he could check my work. I made mistakes yes he corrected but after a while I made less and less mistakes and didn??t realize as a I man i was performing a Party Chief role. He was smart and much older. At around the 2 year mark on one hot day I let my emotions get the best of me. ?ÿHe calmed me down and I told him I needed another crew chief or I was leaving. ?ÿMy main boss after discussing said well why do you want to work under a different crew chief and not run your own crew. I said what. The next week I had a new old beater truck and a new eye man to train. Although I didn??t sit in the truck. You keep your emotions under control and speak with upper management not to go after him but that you are ready to run your own crew. Make it about you not his short comings. ?ÿI am sure they are aware of what he does. Atleast I hope they are. You are in a win win situation to move yourself to the next level. You have been doing it already. ?ÿIf they don??t have room for a new Chief someone does. We are hiring. If they do have room for another chief then you get to stay put and keep growing with that company. If you make it about him and what he does and doesn??t do then a wise boss is going to hesitate. Make it about your ability not his short comings. ?ÿI feel your pain and emotions. Don??t let that drive you. I have made that mistake. No need to use someone as a stepping stone to get higher. ?ÿAnd i am not saying you are just passing a little personal experience along. We all get frustrated I still do. This forum is great for venting and learning. ?ÿNow take all the advice you get here and push the emotions to the side and push on. Like I said I need 2 to 3 more crews like last week. So finding another job is not difficult in my area. Good Luck.
can you sit in the truck and drive around and let your apprentice do 99% of jobs most days?
I mean.. yeah, if you don't mind being one of the bigger d-bags in the office and despised by your crew.
I've worked with some guys, very few fortunately, but some guys that are slow to grab the tools hoping someone else will get after it first.?ÿ I realized I could probably play the same game but I never wanted to put myself into a position where the lazier guys could say I "did the same thing".
It's best to just take the high road and then skedaddle asap, imo.
Ole man river has some excellent thoughts there. You will be better equipped for the real world ahead of you, for this experience.?ÿ
Take it in stride. You have already passed this pc in some ways, especially character.
Don't get mad and blow it.
Blow it, if you want, but not in anger. Anger will hurt you. You can win this. Now do it.?ÿ
N
Great advice guys. Thank you much.?ÿ
I worked construction in Chicagland.?ÿ
I had a pc boss who was a?ÿ great worker (Miller). I also had one that would let me do all the work, (Pruter)
I took advantage of BOTH of them. The one who was a good worker, also would teach. (Dave)
The one who let me do it all, also benefited me. He would be about like yours. I DID RUN all things, with Pruter.
If you do it all, you will soon have his job, eventually.?ÿ
N
You need to make yourself happy. Only you know what that will take. ?ÿIf upper management doesn??t know what??s going on they??re not doing their job.
Hey let us know how it goes. And wish you the best for sure.?ÿ
@norman-oklahoma some of things you say about unions have some truth to them, but it really is the only way for many to make an actual living without in surveying without a license.
Don't leave until you make life difficult for the old coot. I'm sure you know when the worst day of the job will be (large concrete pour for example). Call in sick and let the 'party chief' handle it. Do that a few times and I'm sure he'll get the message.?ÿ
You're not breaking any rules, you can't help being sick, and he's getting paid good money to do the work you're doing. Make him earn it.
3.5 years as a chainman should more than qualify you to do the work on your own with oversite and review by the PLS.?ÿ I'd be willing to bet you could move on somewhere else and be a solo operator.?ÿ ?ÿI'm not sure of your typical work but 1 man crews can do most everything these days.?ÿ There are exceptions of course.
this seems to be the norm, at least part time, for some peers.?ÿ
I have worked solo here and there when my chief is out of town. And I agree that most of the work can be done solo.?ÿ
but it does worry me trying to do control work solo.?ÿ
Id like to try to stick it out for a little while longer in hopes I can bring in my own chainman, but I??m keeping my eyes open for opportunities to work elsewhere as a solo chief/chainman split. Which is what some of my peers do currently.
Be sure that if you do make the move to solo or crew chief work, you are actually getting that oversight and review, as well as mentorship, from the licensee in charge. Oftentimes the folks doing the hiring will promise that, but then you get down to business and they're "too busy" to help your career growth.
Or they don't actually know the things that you need to know to advance. More often than not I see a massive understanding gap between the LS in charge and the nuts & bolts of how a project gets done.
So it??s been quite slow lately.
There is talk of a big construction townhome project starting that??s a good 2.5 hour drive from the office.
my chief pretty much needs me for this project, and I want nothing to do with it.?ÿ
The company is basically keeping us on call lately so they have a crew for this upcoming project.?ÿ
I think it??s time to leave. I hear everyone else is busy in the area. So this company doesn??t seem like it worthwhile to stick around for.
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The owner (LS) asked me when I??m getting my LS recently. I think that??s the first we??ve spoken in months. There??s no guidance and no office support here. Plus little hours. I have to change it up.?ÿ
Im done with my apprenticeship in a week. And will officially be a ??chainman? after 3.5 years. My plan was to buy a laptop, learn autocad, and over the next 2 years self study for the LS.?ÿ
but I can??t sustain myself at this company during that time.
Time to look for work elsewhere?ÿ
Off topic but I??m curious what percentage of your time has been spent doing boundary surveying? ?ÿYou can??t be mentored from a truck nor can you mentor yourself.
Time to look for work elsewhere?ÿ
Please let us know how the compensation packages you may get offered compare to what you are getting now.
Look to Colorado. We desperately need good quality license seeking people.?ÿ Seriously.
And remember the important adage...The world's greatest and fastest construction staker(who is not licensed already) will never get a license until they do....
You got this, hmu for any questions regarding the market here, I've been Round the block for non LSIT no license work, and help you avoid a few big wastes of your time if you come here.
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We do property boundary surveys maybe 3-5 times a month. for preliminary on construction projects. Sometimes for records of survey. Sometimes for homeowners.?ÿ
All I know is how to get on monuments, rotate and translate them to the calcs, and check around. Go from there. That??s all I know.
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When I started, everything was freehand with a 360 prism. All control work was like this.
I since have switched us to the -30mm with bipod or legs. It??s gotten better.?ÿ
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very cool. Thanks for the support.?ÿ
I had never thought of colorado before.
I appreciate you reaching out