I'm moving to a company that is very layout heavy.

Wes Crawford has a book that he has written that contains a lot of good information. I don't remember the name off the top of my head. I will try to post the name tomorrow when I get out to the office.

Amazon has it here.

I Would Not Recommend It If Your Aim Is Surveying

With today's smaller crews I do not understand the term Party Chief anymore, can you explain?

Are you going to have to take paper plans and input them yourself into CAD for stakeout? Anybody checking your work prior to going into the field?

Are you going to take CAD linework and create points for stakeout or will you just use the Pretty Picture without any dimension checking.

You have to understand that any error on paper that you do not find becomes your much more expensive error in the field or extremely expensive error in concrete and steel.

You need to take a plan and go around it in both directions. Many plans, especially architecturals do no close. It is best to get that resolved in writing prior to a stake going into the ground.

Lots of layout work is physically exhausting, plus layout work can easily run into overtime and weekends. This gives you less time to learn surveying on your own after work.

In PA 20 years of layout experience is useless when apply for the PLS.

Paul in PA

That's it Peter. Thanks!

:good: :good:

Same thing in NY: stakeout and layout doesn't mean anything to the state board when it comes to licensure application. YMMV.

Good luck with the move!

I have done a lot of construction layout over the years, but not as much as many of the guys on this forum.

Paul is correct in that construction experience will probably not count towards experience if your ultimate goal is licensure.

A few things I can suggest are check, double check, and check again. Document as much as you can. Store every stakeout point as an as-staked shot.

I don't know what type of layout you will be doing, but I have done small site layout similar to fast food type sites, to Walgreens type sites, to residential subdivisions, to large civil/architectural type projects.

Being solo, I tend to invest in equipment that will make my job easier and more efficient. I have a ton of equipment and gadgets that help make things easier. It works for me.

My contact info is on my profile. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

On attitude and approach

Be mellow, do not let other peoples stress and urgency get you shook up. Follow your methodology, there is a nice calm head-space that comes with doing things the same way every time.

Be aware that their is a chain of responsibility and respect it, the surveying side of things has enough liability to it, no need to go taking the engineers off their hands by doing above and beyond field fitting.

Disregard the haters in the surveying community, there will be those that say what you do is not "real surveying" and there is some truth in that but personally I go to work to make myself and my company real money, it is not a historical or academic pursuit.

Try to push your limits a little on the tech side, things in construction are often further along than topo boundary in this regard, I look back at some of the methods I used earlier in my career and while they are time proven they actually contain lots of wasted time and effort with no real advantage beyond being a little more "idiot proof".

Depending on the size of the project it can get really repetitive which can be hard on morale, I am not sure how to handle that side of it.

RULE #1 - YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH CONTROL
RULE #2 - SEE RULE #1

On attitude and approach

Good advice chef! The party chief on a major job is what I like to call the "smartest kid in the slow class". The trade foremen will rely on you to be the plan interpreter. Work together with them, not against, gain their trust, and you will have a rewarding experience in seeing something on paper come to be a physical object.
You didn't say what you will be working on. There are many branches of construction layout; highways, bridges, both movable and fixed, airports, highrise buildings, tunnels, railroads, marine, etc. Each is it's own animal, which is best learned by doing. Ask questions, try to hook up with a mentor who can guide you through the process, so that you don't have to keep reinventing the wheel.
I am an LS who has been involved in many construction projects spanning many of the disciplines listed above. The bottom line I tell all the young guys I have brought along is, it's all line and grade. The rest is nuance, and you have to figure it out.
And yes, it is surveying.

Here is what I give to my clients and grades to help understand the stakes I give them.

That is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing!

I have drifted to this side of surveying gradually over the years. This was not done intentionally, it just happened for many reasons. I still get out in field on boundary's, topo's, and other traditional surveys; but when a construction job comes knocking the boss starts figuring how to clear my schedule. For me this is a great branch of the field to be in, the feeling you get on seeing a project complete knowing that you helped make it possible to transform a set of plans to reality is an amazing feeling. There is pride in what you help accomplish, don't let anyone take that away.

These folks are giving you some great advise and warnings:

As Paul brought up a lot of surveyors will regard you as a lesser specimen due to the fact that you are not out there chopping 2 or 3k feet of line everyday. Just remember they are swinging a 3# bush-hook while you are lugging 15#s of lath, a bag of hubs, swinging a 10# sledge, and doing more calculations in an hour than they do all day. Then to cap it off you don't get no shade, but they will never see your side of it so get a thick skin and sunscreen.

Jimmy was bearing in on the point that a screw up can cost big time, just think about an error in 1 curb hub not caught can mean the removal and replacement of up to 50' of curbing each side of it. There is no such thing as checking the math too many times. I always walk the work area at the end of the day and read the stakes and other marks to make sure they make sense, and look right against the X-sects. Also remember that on commercial building sites you will be working with sight plans in decimal feet, along with architectural plans in fractional inch.

Chef and techls both touched on the importance of communication and relations with the contractor. Find out how the super wants things marked in advance, each has their own way and it is easier to do it once than to have to come back to explain what something means.

On this note let me add that before you even get to the job site on day one you need to have a clear understanding of what your scope of services to provide is. There is only one faster way to lose money on a job than by doing work not in scope with out written authorization to do it. I keep a diary of everyday spent on a construction site with work performed and who requested it. The faster way to lose money is to have an uncaught error that gets billed back to you (see above).

Sir Veysalot hit the nail on the head with Rule #'s 1 &2. I always hide a couple of control points and a BM outside the area on both sides of the site, or every so often along roadway work. On a bridge site when you think you have it covered, set that much again then judge if you have enough control. The old jokes about equipment operators aiming for control points are not always jokes.

Catfish's first sketch really hit home in reference to the fact that most of the contractors help will not understand that 6.5' is not 6' 5”. This is something I have noticed over the last 15 years or so, used to be just about all equipment operators worked in tenths, but the new equipment “drivers” can barely figure out inches.

Don't do it if you plan to get your licese. I did the same thing once and it delayed my licensure. If you have your license already, then more power to you - that's one less job I will have to stake 😉

You've gotten a lot to chew on already so I'll keep it short.
The tools we have today are amazing. They can facilitate correct and efficient layout when used properly. Our old school tools are excellent for checking things and even doing some jobs. Don't get rid of your transit and tapes. Don't forget the common sense checks. Is that fire hydrant going to be behind the curb and out of the drive? Does the cut on this stake match the world around me? Could someone else build 'it' from the stakes I set?
Good luck, Tom

As stated by others, it can be very mentally exhausting. Plus you pretty much have to be on call as notice is short at the different steps of the process. A concrete form company will not wait for you.

Make sure your equipment is in good order and always check your work with a tape.

The picture is a project I just finished. I laid out positions for 13 concrete piers with anchor bolt patterns on top. These had to be just perfect as the structural steel towers all locked together. No room for error. The anchor bolt patterns had to be oriented a certain direction. All turned out well and I made awesome money but had many sleepless nights during the project.

I did a major layout project right after going to the private sector. Party chief for layout anchor bolts and foundations on 585 Mil$$. Silicon plant. We ended up setting 12K points, all supposed to be +-0.01'.
Calibrate all equip regularly, check and have someone else check every calculation, tape inverses to check stakeout.
Try to keep your cool when the boss calls from Bermuda, (were he is on vacation) when you are setting rebar lay out points in -25 deg temps with the wind blowing hard hats off of the guys on the main building:'(

A few years ago I got my diploma in Geomatics Engineering, I looked into the jobs near me and found out that a construction company will start me at 40 an hour surveying skyscrapers as a "Field Engineer", 40 hours a week, hardly any overtime required, and I get to work near a house I own and sleep in my own bed every night, going to the same job site for years at a time. The job security is also much better.

Where as if I joined a "Surveying Company", they start me at pathetic 18 an hour with a good wage capping out at 35. Get shipped off to work out of town almost completely, living out of a hotel. The only redeeming quality is the living out allowance you can pocket if you want to live as cheaply as possible on the road and if you want to have no life outside of work then you can get lots of overtime.

I am suspecting that the only reason you should ever work for a surveying company is if your goal is to start your own company.

I'll echo this: always keep your cool. Be upfront about mistakes or problems and work with the contractor to solve them. Don't be adversarial-the contractor's cares and concerns are yours and you are his faithful agent. Deliver bad news quickly, but not with delight. As Kipling says
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
...—you’ll be a Man, my son."