So back in 2010 we did a survey in a subdivision that was done back in the 1970's by surveyor who was gifted his license as a CE. I know the gent personally since I purchased the property I built my home on from him twenty years ago on one of them owner financed 'Choctaw Bingo' owner financed deals when I was half starved college student looking to get out of paying rent. Of course he never expected I'd actually pay it all off, but I did and a couple of the lots around me to boot, but I digress...
I was back in this subdivision doing work last summer and jumped on the old 2010 work to get going. Nothing fits. Like it was laid out by a drunk, which might not be all that too far off. Long story short the construction people that followed me in 2010 did a wonderfully efficient job of knocking out or moving just about every corner I flagged up for them to avoid. Now I'm going back to put them back where I found them, only problem is, since I did the work last year I find that there is anywhere from 5-10' floating across the subdivision and I'm going to put those corners back where I found them, in mathematically the wrong location, but where I found them. One of those, you broke it, you own it kind of deals I guess. I'm not about to go in and try to fix the entire gobbed up mess that is this subdivision and I hesitate to leave my LS# behind as evidence of my participation in this fiasco. What would you do? Anything different? It's a backwater low density area of low property values, but I don't feel right walking away from the mess our crews left behind, compounded by the mess left behind by the original surveyor. Oh well, it is what it is.
Well, I'd just document what you did, and move along.
If I were to retrace you, and you left me those kind of footsteps, I'd be a very happy camper.
N
Sub it out to someone you're not fond of. 😉
FL/GA PLS., post: 373528, member: 379 wrote: Sub it out to someone you're not fond of. 😉
"Subbing" it out does not relieve you of the responsibility, in most cases. I believe you might mean "hand it off to", or "gift" the project to someone you're not fond of.
Nate,
I ran into a similar problem a number of years ago and I'm not real sure how they eventually fixed it..or if they ever did.
A developer had cut-up a 40 acre qtr./qtr into 8 five acre tracts, all with frontage...making them 165' wide and 1320' deep (mol). Their written descriptions were aliquot-style, i.e. W/2 of the W/2 of the W/2 of the SW of SW/4...etc.
Apparently the developer merely measured the frontage (with a wheel or a tape) and drove a 1x4 into the ground and sticking up about 3-4 feet...they were painted white and had "peel-off" address numbers from the hardware store on them delineating a "lot number" that corresponded with his little 8.5x11 "map" of the property. They were not particularly accurate and some were 10'-15' off of a "surveyed" division and fell "in the fence" for line.
An older surveyor, Warren Shaw (LS65 & RIP now) had danced through there and driven pins by the 1x4s and produced an "unrecorded plat" for the developer at the time the lots were created. As near as we could determine 20 years later, no rear pins were ever set. Even though the pins were in the ground and somewhat erratic, all the conveyances were by aliquot description and Shaw showed this on his "survey", although his pins were way off.
So what's a fella to do?? Do you accept the original surveyor's pins in all their glory, or attempt to construct a simultaneous conveyance and protecting the plat with standard boundary procedures?
I believe what I did on at least two of the lots was honor and accept Shaw's pins on one side where a fence had been built to and the other side had been (thankfully) dozed so those pins wound up as 'surveyed'.
I remember thinking there is NO WAY to do this correctly...just shoot from the hip and hope your aim is good.
I love that "'Choctaw Bingo' owner financed" has become part of the lexicon.
rfc, post: 373531, member: 8882 wrote: "Subbing" it out does not relieve you of the responsibility
If you word your contract correctly it can.
If you sign it, you are responsible.
If you are licensed and do the actual survey in the field and don't sign it, you are still responsible for your part.
Whoever did the analytical decision making of where everything went is responsible for that end and should have signed it.
A surveyor's records of prior location of monuments is evidence of where the monuments belong as long as the surveyor can guarantee the relocating is repeatable. To do that, he must be able to find enough of the original control.
It always irritates me when I return to a site and find another surveyors rod in the wrong place after I've told them that I can help them as I have record of the location of the missing monument in my files and they refuse the cooperation I offer.
What do you do, when
1. You ran some tie line, 10 yes ago, tied an original monument.
2. It got destroyed 7 years ago.
3. Another surveyor proportioned it in, 5 yes ago.
4. You are now called upon to survey the adjoining place. You have both locations. The other surveyor only has one.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 373614, member: 291 wrote: What do you do, when
1. You ran some tie line, 10 yes ago, tied an original monument.
2. It got destroyed 7 years ago.
3. Another surveyor proportioned it in, 5 yes ago.
4. You are now called upon to survey the adjoining place. You have both locations. The other surveyor only has one.
If we do a good enough job documenting what we did, following surveyors would be able to reestablish obliterated monuments without resorting to proportioning.
.... at least that's the idea.
Sorry but wasn't it part of your 2010 job to verify if construction crews followed your points?
When I did a subdivision project (a long long time ago), I would layout the roads first. Then project manager would call me back to layout the
block boundaries & after that the individual lots. So you get 2 or 3 times to check/recheck the points. 5' to 10' is a lot to not have caught it in time.
Jim_H, post: 373620, member: 11536 wrote: If we do a good enough job documenting what we did, following surveyors would be able to reestablish obliterated monuments without resorting to proportioning.
.... at least that's the idea.
Seems logical in a recording state but not so easy in a non.
FrancisH, post: 373625, member: 10211 wrote: Sorry but wasn't it part of your 2010 job to verify if construction crews followed your points?
Short answer is no. Remember this is a 1975 subdivision and I come in 35 years later and locate all the subdivision control along one little segment of road ROW and flag it all up to be avoided and put the utility people where they belong. Things don't fit great but it is what it is. I don't have any control over what the construction folks do after I leave. I come back 5 years later doing another similar job in a different part of the subdivision and use that old control to get started. Now I'm getting the big picture and it's a mess and I'm very hesitant to slap my name on it and assume liability over something I have zero control over. The least I can do though is put those corners back where I found them and not leave it to the next guy to thrash about trying to make sense the hash the construction folks left in their wake, on top of the hash created by the original surveyor. I personally think surveyors should adopt a creed along the lines of doctors along the lines of 'Primum Non Nocere', First, Do no harm, or something along those lines.
conculcarent vestigia mea , nec pedis mei .
