Hire professional or rent equipment?

South 44° 42' 27" East Is Relative

It may be relative to true North.

It may be relative to Grid North.

It may be relative to Magnetic North. (Most likely at some time in the past)

It may be relative to Deed North . (Which may be relative to corner monuments on your parcel or even on other parcels)

While it is entirely possible to do what you suggest, doing so my not give you the result you expect and/or require.

Paul in PA

South 44° 42' 27" East Is Relative

:good: :good: :good:

Paul is right. The bearing or direction of the line you wish to mark is relative to North, but how is North being defined? There are too many unknown variables to provide an accurate description of how to do what you want to do.

It's very unlikely that any surveyor will tell you this is a good idea. Even though you may have a recorded bearing, that doesn't mean the correct line will agree with a compass. In fact, it almost definitely will not. If you mark a position on you own, it could be used by someone else in the future, and it will probably not be correct. My suggestion would be to hire a professional.

> Hi,
>
> I am not a surveyor, I have only done jobs on my own land with rented equipment like old-school transits and transit levels. I now need to do a very small job, unlike any I have done, and I think the technology may have changed.
>
> Job:
> I have one pin in the ground. I will set the equipment over this pin. I need to mark a bearing of South 44 deg 42 min 27 sec East at the point where it intersects an existing fence approx 400' away. Extreme accuracy is not required here, this is not for the purposes of conveyance.

>
> 1. Would a professional even do such a small job? I don't need any documentation, courthouse work, or even a receipt for that matter. I would be the assistant to mark the spot. Is there some code of ethics that prevents them from doing casual work?
>

Yes. State law.

South 44 deg 42 min 27 sec East is a relative direction.

If the line you are setting out is completely within your bounds and will not touch upon (or get close) or cross a boundary line then you can do whatever you want on your own property. If it touches upon or crosses the line, hire a professional.

Thanks all for the quick replies.

I will hire someone. Will they be able to tell which "North" this is? The bearing was taken from my recorded deed.

On edit:
Also, is there any value in determining who did the original survey and using them? Assuming they are still in business. Would the courthouse have recorded the surveyor?

It was originally done in the 80's.

thanks,
ll

That's always the challenge. To find some evidence that can be related to the deed description to determine the relative 'North' that was used originally. If it was a compass survey done a century ago, the magnetic declination has changed significantly since then and would require research to determine the change to get back 'on' to a proximity of those bearings. Turning an angle is easy. Determining what to turn that angle in relation to, is entirely another thing.

Unless the survey was required or has a stated basis of "North", you could be quite a ways off trying to lay out a bearing from one point. Many surveys in my area are on an "Assumed North" meaning the surveyor picked the line that was going closest to North and called it N 00°00'00" E for computations sake, but on a true world system it might actually be N30'15'27"W or N15°10'06"E or anything between a line going east or a line going west.

I have a real silly question:

If it doesn't have to be accurate and will never be used for conveyance, why are you so worried about holding this bearing?

In my state as long as I don't set an iron there would be nothing to stop me from doing this 'quick and dirty', but many surveyors will struggle to trust that the results wouldn't eventually be used as part of a conveyance. If not by you then by your grantees. ie: "Dad had that surveyed. If it's wrong have your lawyer contact Joe Surveyor."

If it's being used as a setback line for some sort of construction then the value of the improvement might eventually be charged to the surveyor for the same reasons.

A surveyor's work has to stand the test of time. If this line is being found for setback purposes, or would ever be represented on a deed as S44-42-27E without being retraced by a license professional then the work would be illegal in 'round here.

You're making a very good decision when you hire a local professional.

Steve

I don't see any clues pointing to a particular State / jurisdiction. The rules vary widely.
Around these parts, a survey from the 80's would be recorded. The map would (if prepared to any standard) tell you the 'Basis of Bearing(s)' and the Professional Surveyor in charge of the job.
Striking off on your own is as described through the thread. If completely within your own property you can probably do as you wish. Even then you need to do the 'risk/reward' analysis yourself. How much will you save and how much can you lose...
Good Luck, Tom

It doesn't matter if it is for a conveyane or not if you are setting up on pin and running a deed call. That is boundary surveying as defined by state law.
Even though the poster is within his rights to 'run' the line , they are apparently oblivious to the liability of doing such a task.

I dunno... This sounds like the all to familiar "I only need one line marked" and how inexpensive can it be done. They don't need a survey because one was done 35 years ago.
Afterall, they declared they have experience using antiquated survey equipment and maybe some modern equipment could be rented to do the work.

Btw, I don't think that this has relevancy to Yswami and his surveying pursuits. He hired a professional for their boundary work.

You have all been very helpful,

Just to clarify some things:

This is Gaston County North Carolina.

My uneducated assessment when I posted was that extreme accuracy was not required as no sale is happening at this time. I see now that this may not be the case. My immediate need is to place a fence on this property line, 4' farm fence. I usually offset the outer edge of any fence 6" to 1' from the line depending on how accurate I think the line is. No one wants some future neighbor say "your fence is 1" on my property and I think I want to tear it down". To put it in the proper perspective, this is a rural area where most folks have 10-20 acres and some (not me) have livestock.

Just for my education, can a surveyor just do this line or do they have to do the whole 10 acres?

thanks very much,
ll

It would depend on the surveyor, his prior knowledge of the neighborhood, and how much he values his license to practice. It is entirely possible that he would not only have to survey your whole 10 but the neighbors acreage as well to ensure the line is staked correctly.

Ia it ensure or insure?

> Just for my education, can a surveyor just do this line or do they have to do the whole 10 acres?
>
> thanks very much,
> ll

Depends. For farm land, it will typically require visiting every corner of the parcel (+ additional measurements on other monuments and evidence) in order to establish the boundary of a single line. For what you are needing, I would think the whole parcel would be "surveyed", but perhaps a single line laid out.

In a modern city plat, it is not uncommon to survey a single line, but for a 10 acre parcel of farm land, this is usually not the case.

Problems with fences and such being over the line are almost never about the measurements. What you need is a professional opinion of the location of the boundary. A surveyor will need to collect a preponderance of the best available evidence in order to give an opinion. Only after that can they mark the line with measurements for you. The evidence needed might be within a few acres in size or within a few hundred acres in size. More to it than meets the eye. Talk with a couple surveyors and find one you think you can work with. Then get into scope and costs and such. You're on the right track getting more information about it before you jump in. Good luck with it.

Aloha, Robert:

Humbled by the positive reference made here!:-)

Edit: LL sorry for the hijack here 😉

I firmly believe that the professional services should be use where it required by law, critical jobs, if one really wants to avoid future confusions and lawsuit from neighbors! It is wisdom--timely application of knowledge--as a wise man told me once.

Just recently, I helped my landscape architect to setup elevation bench mark per his requirement around our temple site. It is well within our boundary which was set by professional licensed surveyor. I was comfortable doing that.

Then comes a need for drainage plan. I made a decision--it is not for me to create topo and design the drainage. I could probably do the topo but decided against it. Instead hired our surveyor who did an excellent job with our boundary work. His company also has a PE who I asked to help with the drainage design. His PC and Rodman happened to be here TODAY and below is the pictures of a crew member with their GPS gear and their chariot.

I can't image jeopardizing the granite temple which was designed to last more than 1000 years, just because I wanted to save a little money now!

Aloha

>
> Btw, I don't think that this has relevancy to Yswami and his surveying pursuits. He hired a professional for their boundary work.

Thanks, I see,

Does it help if I do not need an iron set? I just want to build a fence and need to mark the location on an existing perpendicular fence to tie into.

As has been explained, its probably not as simple as you first stated. For example say the compass bearing is based on magnetic north. Magnetic north varies over a period of time. Say it only varies 1 degree, that is almost 7 feet of error by the time you get to the other end of a 400 foot long line. What you really need if you are going to build a fence is at least that one boundary line determined.

If the fence follows a boundary between your neighbor and you, get it surveyed. Fences have a way of turning into boundaries over time. With the amount of work it will take a surveyor to determine where the line is on the ground, the additional cost associated with setting a couple of corners to monument the line will be small in comparison to the cost of determining where the line is to begin with. It's a penny wise, pound foolish thing. Whether your surveyor will have to retrace the entire parcel to say where the one line is depends entirely on the circumstances. He is putting his reputation on the line and assuming liability that the line is in the correct location . In my case if a client can't or won't afford to budget enough to do the job properly, I don't want the work. It's just not worth it if I ended up getting called into court. The alternative is to talk with your neighbor and agree on where the boundary is and where the fence should go. If you built the fence over onto land your neighbor claims, the legal costs could make the surveyor's fee appear a bargain. Not to mention the bad blood and who needs that.

Best of luck to you.

You will definitely want to hire a pro. In NC a surveyor can not just come and stake a line. We are required at a minimum to do what is called a report of survey. This will involve locating all of your corners and resetting them if necessary. I know at the firm I work for it really isn't worth it to have a report done as the cost difference of a full survey with a plat is minimal.