There is way to much speculation and way to vague a presentation for me to answer that question. Off the top of my head I would say no.
What do you see there in the field?
I can tell you I've reset Section corners and other property corners from fence remnants and noted similar evidence in my recorded drawing, I didn't go into great detail of what type of barb wire, or posts I found.?ÿ
You want a specific answer to a vague question, I doubt you will find that here.?ÿ
Here are 2 plaques that hang on the wall in my office.?ÿ Most surveyors (98%), in my humble opinion, take their duty of the protection of the health and welfare of the public very seriously. Casting doubt and making statements that make this surveyor, whomever he/she may be, appear to be arbitrarily placing a boundary line where his client wants it to be is insulting. It would be better if you stuck to ONLY the facts and leave your conjecture and speculation out of the conversation.
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Not quite sure what was said that riled some up here?? ?ÿmy bottom line question was: Is it reasonable to ask for more detail on a notion ??fence remnants.? Yes or no. ?ÿIf that??s out of line, I apologize.
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If the client wants to portray the existence of an old fence, the surveyor will probably provide a map that accommodates. ?ÿIf there??s weak remnant evidence, the surveyor will probably not to elaborate on the weakness. ?ÿOr share that with me.
You implied that the surveyor hired by the neighbor is biased, possibly fabricating or misrepresenting evidence which would place them in the league of an attorney representing one party against another, while a licensed surveyor has a duty is to remain impartial to both parties that share a boundary and only focus on finding the facts that will lead to the discovery of the truth. I'm not saying that there might not be unscrupulous surveyors out there but a clearly demonstrated case of such an activity as you describe could cost them their license and reputation. Every surveyor on every survey operates under the assumption that their work could be questioned in court. Attorneys are hired guns. Licensed surveyors are not.
Nothing appears in the field above ground. ?ÿAs I mentioned, I??ve mowed the area and not encountered anything, therefore, findings would be underground.
I totally agree that a general notation of ??fence remnants? is great, fine, and standard practice. ?ÿBut if a question arises on what these are, is it reasonable to ask for some detail, that??s all.
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Not my intent. ?ÿI expect a client pays a fee for a certain, well-defined scope of survey work. ?ÿIf a neighbor has questions on the end work product, it might be unreasonable for them to, for example, dig out and look at the field notes and explain, yes, remnants were such-and-such. ?ÿThis takes time and effort - not in the budget, and it may be unreasonable for the neighbor to expect feedback.
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Your profile indicates a license from the State of Wisconsin. Is this a professional license?
I wouldn't have a problem answering a question like that if a neighbor called about a survey I'd done.?ÿ But are you going to be content if a surveyor tells you that it's some miscellaneous strands of wire buried in the ground, where the old deeds called for a fence??ÿ Or are you going to discount what's said, and start an argument, and pushing your case of where the line really is?
@jph?ÿ
I would be happily content with a report of a few strands. ?ÿI just want to know the facts, and let them speak for themselves.
Not quite sure what was said that riled some up here?? ?ÿmy bottom line question was: Is it reasonable to ask for more detail on a notion ??fence remnants.? Yes or no. ?ÿIf that??s out of line, I apologize.
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I??m not saying remnants are not there, I??m just saying I??m interested in more detail because it??s a mysterious description. ?ÿAnd I??m saying surveyors are fact-based but are most inclined to serve their client, and not a questioning neighbor like me. ?ÿThat??s all, not cynical.
You are completely and totally incorrect in your statement about the inclination of surveyors. Surveyors are NOT advocates for their client's view of where the boundary is. We are advocates for the cadaster and bona fide property rights. Period. If you want an advocate for your point of view, you hire a lawyer.
I take it personally to have anything else implied. Your statement is not cynical, it does demonstrate a deep ignorance of my profession. Believe me that the flaming in this thread is being held to a minimum because we assume you are ignorant and not malevolent.
Call the surveyor and ask. Period. I do not want to be harsh, but you have impugned the character of this surveyor (and all of us by association) with your assertion. You likely did not mean to do so, but that is what happened. Call the surveyor, give them a chance to explain.?ÿ
To answer the OP, I would describe what I found: Rotting fence rails on the ground, found barbed wire remnants, whatever. I might add my own opinion of, "appears to be fence remnants" if I that was my opinion. It has been stated that we just find facts, but we also apply our expert opinions to the facts to draw conclusions. They are expert opinions, but the difference between a fact and opinion should be parsed by the end user.
NSPS:
"To place service before profit, honor and standing of the profession before personal advantage, and the public welfare above all other considerations;"
"Canon 4.
A Professional Surveyor should develop and communicate a professional analysis and opinion without bias or personal interest."?ÿ
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Edit: as a PE you should know better...what if I implied that you fudged the numbers to allow for smaller pipes or timbers, or whatever, just to help your client make money on a project. I assume you would find that very cynical.?ÿ
@dmyhill?ÿ
dmyhill, I appreciate your view. ?ÿPerhaps I??m a little ignorant.
As for being a PE, I abide by codes and accepted design standards, and best practices. ?ÿ I have latitude to conform to my clients wishes depending on budget, so the client is very influential. ?ÿThe building could be made of straw, sticks or bricks, as long as it met code. ?ÿWhereas the surveyor is more of scientist/investigator.
I mentioned earlier I did reach out and have not heard anything.
Did you send him an RFI? ?????ÿ
Responding to a neighbor??s questions is a courtesy. ?ÿYou??re assuming the worst. ?ÿPut your mind at ease. ?ÿThere will be plenty of time for you to get your own survey prior to going to court.
I had my survey done years ago. ?ÿThe new survey agrees with the record boundary location. ?ÿIt??s just the new survey shows the remnants found far from the record.
I wouldn??t be able to sleep at night if I worried about what might happen. ?ÿNothing you can do except cross a bridge when you come to it.
If I label remnants of a fence you??ll find small pieces of wire and possibly rotted wooded posts laying on the ground. ?ÿSomething that has not been maintained for a very long time. ?ÿ
In my opinion not strong evidence of continuous occupation. ?ÿ
I wouldn??t sweat it but that??s just me.
Good luck.
But like it or not, there will be some bias in favor of the client
I've never been in Cahoots; apparently you can't go alone...
First known use of cahoots was in 1827.
Nothing appears in the field above ground. ?ÿAs I mentioned, I??ve mowed the area and not encountered anything, therefore, findings would be underground.
I totally agree that a general notation of ??fence remnants? is great, fine, and standard practice. ?ÿBut if a question arises on what these are, is it reasonable to ask for some detail, that??s all.
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Why wouldn't it be?
neighbor just filed a survey showing four (4) ex??s:
Ask your neighbor, if they don't know ask them to ask the Surveyor. ?????ÿ
Signing off:
I??m sorry I ever mentioned anything about the boundary location. ?ÿThis was really all about what was found and whether the non-client (me) had any expectation of getting a little more detail.
Lots of great and instructive posts, that to me, do show some differences of opinion by the experts??. ?ÿSome may lean toward?ÿsharing a little more (within reason), and others might suggest I??m fortunate to get what I??ve got.
Just to end with a thank you for the education. ?ÿAnd apologies for any unintended slights. ?ÿ
