Any of you had to sign something similar? Thoughts?
This Agreement sets forth the process by which xxxxxxx will provide Electronic Files to xxxxxxxxxx, Recipient, and the terms for Recipient??s exclusive use. The Electronic Files are being provided for informational purposes only and XXXXX provides no warranties, either express or implied, concerning the accuracy, correctness or completeness of the Electronic Files and the Recipient agrees to independently verify the accuracy, correctness, and completeness of the Electronic Files for its needs.
xxxxxxxxx shall have no obligation to notify Recipient of, or provide Recipient with, revisions or changes to the underlying information contained in the Electronic Files. Recipient represents and warrants that if XXXXXXXX name and/or logo appears in the Electronic Files it shall be deleted and be of no force and effect. XXXXXX provides no warranties or guarantees that the means or media of electronic transfer of the Electronic Files is free of computer viruses, and Recipient acknowledges that it has sole responsibility for assuring that such media is free of any viruses prior to any use thereof.
The Recipient agrees to waive all claims against Provident resulting in any way from unauthorized changes or reuse of the Electronic Files by anyone other than Provident. In addition, the Recipient agrees to indemnify and hold XXXXXX harmless from any damages, liability or costs arising from any changes, reuse, or reliance of the Electronic Files by anyone other than XXXXXXXXX. The Recipient agrees to the terms and conditions of this Electronic File Transfer Agreement. Electronic Files shall be transferred to the Recipient upon the receipt of an executed copy of this Agreement.
exclusive use or permitted use? Exclusive sounds like recipient is the only one who can use it.
Maybe break into bullet points for easier digestion?
I'd want a good faith attempt to have updates if they are made to the master files.
Provident? Provider?
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@bill93 Provident (forgot to xxxx). IS THERE SOMETHING UNUSUAL IN THE LANGUAGE OF THIS AGREEMENT?
??Any of you had to sign something similar??.
No, also I have never seen one so wordy. As a matter of fact it has so much gibberish in it that it could cause self implication. It??s the same type worthless garbage verbiage attached to emails (or facsimiles back when). In the real world it means nothing. Signing that doesn??t affect you in any way. It wouldn??t be any different practicing calligraphy. ?????ÿ
in Virginia, generally a professional cannot use another professionals data without express written permission.?ÿ The originator of the data does not want to extend liability to a third party, thus the disclaimers.?ÿ These types of agreements are common in our area.?ÿ Generally the originator of the data is under no obligation (unless in a contract) to provide electronic data and does so as a courtesy.?ÿ No one is requiring you to sign.
I foresee an app with which one can secure a signature to avoid the liability involved in a situation like helping someone fix a flat tire on the side of the 405 in the pouring rain at rush hour....."Yes ma'm, just sign here and I'll help you out of your predicament."
How did we get along all these millennium without attorneys??ÿ
My biggest issue with sending CAD out is that there is a code that my products have to be signed or stamped preliminary.?ÿ
I don't have a way to sign and lock a dwg (and not sure how useful it would be if I could), then the signed PDF must suffice.?ÿ
I have seen representations of my work (via) CAD on other people's sheets (for instance a background of existing conditions). I also have an example where the other guy (and company) faked in a water line that wasn't located. It was a different line type, so I cannot say it was horrible, second look showed it wasn't the Surveyor's work. But the client didn't get that, and I am pretty sure he still thinks I owe him for the extra work.
Those agreements are intended to (hopefully) safeguard against such things, and define the nature and context of the CAD.
I figure that it's better not to have any written agreement about the use of digital files.?ÿ If something goes wrong and there's a written agreement, the attorneys will work overtime finding some way of using it to throw liability upon the originator.
I'd like to order a dust filter for a Hoover Max Extract 60 Pressure Pro......
If you aren't really, really concerned about liability for the misuse of shared data then you haven't been paying attention. You could share a thousand files without issue and then have the cost of defending yourself for the 1001st bankrupt you and your company.?ÿ
I would sign the above agreement, and I have signed plenty of similar agreements. All it really says is that the CAD isn't the signed and certified document. Like a lot of you I roll my eyes while doing it, but that is the world we live in. The requests for it are a lot less common that they once were.?ÿ?ÿ
the cost of defending yourself
I'm certainly concerned about liability; that's the reason I carry insurance.?ÿ I just don't believe that elaborate disclaimers and releases like the one cited have any material effect being the one I use most often:?ÿ "The attached file is provided without warranty."
It's that electronic files are not, and cannot be checked to the needed accuracy, checked to stand on their own.?ÿ The paper or PDF stamped delivered as for-construction are the valid documents.?ÿ There can be dimension labels that are changed in a detail or plan label which is more reasonable than adjusting a bunch of cad lines by say 0.5 feet for example.?ÿ The cad files might be good enough to construct from for the purposes that they'd be beneficial, but the design engineer company cannot certify the cad version.
Okay, that makes no sense.?ÿ First, I can not remember the last time I saw a set of plans that could be built from without CAD files (maybe true station and offset plans are the exception).?ÿ Plans have become a tool to get things through the permitting process.?ÿ Back in the day you had to calc the curb line from the plan set in the front of the Suburban.?ÿ Now they are just pretty little pictures without a coordinates, bearings or curve data.
CAD drawings can be, and should be, checked for accuracy.?ÿ If you can make changes in the CAD file to correct dimensions labels then you can make the drawing correct.?ÿ And you can digitally sign a CAD file using your secure, third party verifiable, digital signature.?ÿ If the drawing is modified in any way then your signature disappears.?ÿ I do wish that AutoDesk would come up with some sort of block attached to the digital signature to represent my stamp but that is a separate issue.?ÿ
If you can make changes in the CAD file to correct dimensions labels then you can make the drawing correct.
I haven't done much with CAD, and none with current software packages.?ÿ But I think a basic requirement should be that the software has a line's dimension label tied to the line and automatically know its length and bearing.
You are 100% correct. Most projects today can't be constructed from the PDF/Paper plans alone. I believe 95% of the drawings today come with no benchmarks and no baseline. The CAD files are required for layout. I have seen lots of ridiculous Electronic File Statements. In my experience, when it becomes difficult to get the CAD files due to the long drawn-out writings, the worse the CAD files are in the end. At times, it can be worse when the drawings come from a company that also has a survey department. I have asked Engineers why they don't show BM's on the plans, more than one has told me their surveyor has told them to leave it off the plan.
I tell the clients and owners, that they need to develop a team that works together, working towards the same goal. This way the harder these idiots push to keep data from others on the team, the farther they are pushing future work away.
Agreements in some ways protects both parties.?ÿ I remember getting a call from someone trying to stake points on a different datum than his GPS sensor - US vs Intl foot or project w/assumed coordinate system.?ÿ We use InRoads and Microstation and generally, our design files are translated to dwg for most to use.?ÿ Translations, although rare, can go bad.?ÿ Generally, the paper copy is what the County approved and not the digital file.?ÿ Also, when using digital drawings others have furnished, you generally have a responsibility to go back to the professional who provided that file if any discrepancies.?ÿ This helps both parties plus the owner as it should be a team effort to do whatever you are using the digital data for.
So, there are many reasons for digital data agreements.?ÿ Check the digital data with the approved hardcopy and when you find differences, go back to the professional who provided you the data.
Might be more appropriate to say that there aren't many contractors left that can construct a project without CAD using just the paper plans. I would hope most surveyors could.
Most plans today have no dimensions, no bm and no baseline.?ÿ Yes, a surveyor can scale the paper plans for layout. But no two will place it in the same position when drawings are at a scale 1" = 50' scale or higher.