Easement description question

If I am up against this situation, I call a utility locate service or have the client call them. I might even employ someone with psychic powers.?ÿ If those options don't pan out, I would resort to testimony of the land owner. If none of that works, you can always do the along the line as constructed thing but at that point the land owner is on notice that no one really knows and they are okay with that type of description.?ÿ Of course, you already knew that.?ÿ?ÿ

Make them bring out a backhoe and dig around for the pipe.?ÿ That's the only way to not get burned.

There are power line rights of way and easements all over Georgia (and probably other states) from the 1920s and 1930s that say something to the effect of "A strip of land being 50 feet wide across Land Lot 433 of the 19th District, 2nd Section, Cobb County, Georgia".?ÿ There may or may not be ANY evidence that a power line ever existed in that Land Lot, but I have still been asked to locate that easement.?ÿ Note that a Land Lot in that area is 160 acres.

Question??ÿ Are you being asked to place your seal on said easement??ÿ If so I would insist on the pipeline being located before I would stamp something like that.?ÿ If the pipe is not uncovered my note would say something like, "As located and marked by XYZ Utility Company and located by me on November 13, 2020."

Andy

You need to buy (or rent), and learn to use a pipe locator (aka utility locator). Otherwise, if they are O.K. with a description that doesnt actually locate the easment, they dont really need a surveyor.?ÿ

Jim, after thinking about it. Are you sure that your fee is more than the pipe locating company??ÿ If not perhaps you are being considered the low bidder on that aspect of the project. A distinction that is not worthy of your time or education.?ÿ

Surprised no one has mentioned dowsing yet.?ÿ If nothing else it will give the big yellow machines somewhere to start digging.

What is the water line supposedly made of? Iron, other metal, nonmetal?

I'm guessing plastic lines, which gained wide acceptance beginning in the early 1960's.?ÿ Finding anyone who might have personal knowledge of precisely where one was installed is difficult for the older lines.?ÿ An excellent example of this came a few years ago when our county sheriff put in a new house in the country.?ÿ The line was along the fence paralleling the county road past his house so it was an easy connection.?ÿ A few years later he hired a dozer and track hoe to come in and make some major improvements to the pond on his 40 acres.?ÿ As they began their work in the shallow end of the pond they suddenly had water spewing all over the place.?ÿ It turned out the original water line had been diverted to run around the pond instead of between the dam and the road fence because that area was terribly overgrown with hedge, locust and cedar trees.?ÿ No one connected with the water district and none of the neighbors had any knowledge of where the line had actually been installed.

Make your best educated determination (guess) of the waterline location.?ÿ Describe the centerline with the easement being 10', or whatever, each, (not either), side of the described centerline.?ÿ?ÿ Then add, "the final easement centerline location is determined by the existing installed pipe/waterline."

Gas/oil/power companies usually do this, "determined by final surveyed location".

The utility is the actual monument.

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As others have said, if it's a critical location that you need, then excavation is the answer.?ÿ?ÿ But if it's a large parcel, or they're just looking to obtain/clarify their rights, then the above method works.

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PVC pipe with no tracer strip alongside. They are a PITA to find sometimes. I would chat with a locator and find out if there is a solution such as laying a wire down it.?ÿ

Also, I've had luck with this type of pipe using historical photos. Even Google might help if it's new enough.?ÿ

Here's a pipe in 2017:

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It was laid in this ditch from a 2002 photo:

Maybe you've done it already but I would work back with google to see if it shows up then try the USDA site and trace backwards, since it's PVC you shouldn't have to go back to the 50's

historicaerials.com has photos reasonably georeferenced that in some areas go back to the 1930's, other places not so far back.

Get your witching sticks 🙂

Thanks everyone - your comments are much appreciated! It's too long a story to reproduce here, but I think the thing that troubles me the most is the fact that a description should produce a "unique" location. It is a bit of stretch to do that in this case. This line could be 80 yrs old...

80 years predates the use of PVC.?ÿ So we can toss that thought out.

@holy-cow Dowsing has been absolutely proven to be a fake art in scientific studies.?ÿ OTOH a local dowser may have knowledge of utilities, aquifers based on previous wells and the general lay of the land, so may be worth consulting.

I dabbled in dowsing (coat hanger wire) a few decades ago and failed miserably.

@mike-marks

I was a non-believer myself until I proved that I could be successful doing it in places where I truly did not know for sure if any lines had been buried.?ÿ I can't tell you what is buried there, but something is.?ÿ it could be a telephone cable or a water line or a sewer line or a natural gas line but SOMETHING is there corresponding to numerous locations.

One example was in my daughter's front yard. After several passes there was a single "spot" on each pass.?ÿ Those spots lined up.?ÿ She then showed me the very well-hidden water meter lid near the curb line and pointed to where the water service enters the basement.?ÿ A perfect match.?ÿ I did not know if there was any kind of utility line in that entire area.

Then I wandered around their little back yard a bit and found one spot and only one spot.?ÿ Turns out that is where they had buried Smoky the cat several years earlier.

So, any given sign does not mean much by itself other than the soil is not consistent with the soil nearby.

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If the line is 6" or greater diameter, hire someone with a ground penetrating radar unit that is capable of detecting up to 10' below surface.?ÿ?ÿ

Have the GPR used at the beginning and end and a few places in between.?ÿ

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I dealt with this one last year while trying to subdivide the lot by map?ÿ It was some sort of bro deal from a prior family subdivsion by deed.

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Effective but caused a few problems later when trying to get city engineer approval on the map.?ÿ I believe the client finally went out and hand dug the pvc line herself 225 feet from meter back to property line after we couldn't certify the location on the map

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Fortunately, no survey work was involved in a mess where I attempted to be helpful.?ÿ I had surveyed a tract of about 15 acres way back in 1987 to cut it off from the remainder of the farm.?ÿ A few years ago I began renting the 12 acre pasture from the owner as she had no need for anything but the house.?ÿ Later she sold the whole property to her niece.?ÿ About the time they moved in they discovered there had to be a water leak somewhere between the meter and house but it would not surface enough to give a strong sign of where to fix the little PVC service line.

In the early 1960's when the rural water district came into existence there was a two-story house there to get the initial water connection.?ÿ About 1970 the owners tore down the old house and built a new one southwesterly of the old one.?ÿ At some point they ran a line to the lot used for livestock on occasion.?ÿ Things started going downhill big time in agriculture by about 1980 when a bank foreclosed on the entire quarter section.?ÿ The bank also failed and FDIC ended up with the property in 1987.?ÿ That is when I did the survey for FDIC so they could get the worthless 1970 house the prior owner had allowed to become a giant rat nest sold to the first fool who would offer them anything to buy it.?ÿ At the time, I was renting everything but the house from FDIC for farming purposes.?ÿ That buyer discovered they had bought a cheap mess so resold to another fool in a short period of time.?ÿ A couple of years after that buyer moved in it was decided they must put in a new modular home northerly of what had been the new house and northwesterly of where the original house had been located.?ÿ They then tore down the crappy house that wasn't all that old.?ÿ Somehow, the water service line had been altered from the original location to get to the 1970 house, then later somehow the service line was altered to get to the modular home and to an inground swimming pool.?ÿ The people who did that then sold out and moved far away.?ÿ Thus, there was no one who had a clue as to how water was traveling from the meter to the modular home.

The niece's husband had a buddy who had a backhoe he could borrow.?ÿ He tore up their entire front yard following buried lines that had been abandoned at some time before finally finding the one he needed.?ÿ The leak was within five feet of the edge of the modular home but that was at the far end of where he began his search.

FYI, about two years later I did a survey for the niece and her husband when they jumped ship and moved about 10 miles to get away from all the headaches.?ÿ Surveying at the new location was a profitable deal for me.

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