In Illinois, tags aren't used, I've never seen one, but this is a good example of where tags would be usefull. If the guy that set the caps was really just using the original corners and set his caps to show that, attaching a tag would be better.
billvhill, post: 425859, member: 8398 wrote: In his defense, he is an older surveyor and believes a few tenths is on the money for a five acre rural tract.
I think that is the answer, there has been an ongoing debate (sometimes quite heated) here about old monuments without PLS #'s. You are supposed to put your number on them, and because there are minimum monument standards a tag isn't acceptable. Soooo, either you remove the original and replace it, or you try to drive a rebar through the pipe or you try to stamp your # on the pipe somehow. I can tell from experience that none of the options work all that well except for remove and replace but then you lose the original. I would just treat the caps as reference monuments and the pipe as the original, at least he did you a favor and got a number on it. 😎
I wouldn't look at this one as a pincushion.
I've got lots of original stones with reference monuments. One guy would even dig in a nice brass cap at a 1' witness corner distance on a section line next to the stone.
It's cool that he stamped the lots on the cap, if he stenciled lot lines also, just think of the anal retentive overload some surveyors will have not being able to use the little intersection of the lines as the corner point.
Maybe he was to lazy to look before setting a new one. If he is that lazy then he probably thinks no one else will look. Once again I'm glad they are so close together. It is harder to explain when there is a foot between two monuments. My 2 cents, Jp
We've lost our way if there are rules requiring a surveyors cap on a found corner monument. IMO That's like a dog sniffing a tire and replacing the scent with his own. So every new surveyor leaves his own number behind? I'm not sure which is worse - this or an actual pin cushion. Same effect.
linebender, post: 425888, member: 449 wrote: We've lost our way if there are rules requiring a surveyors cap on a found corner monument. IMO That's like a dog sniffing a tire and replacing the scent with his own. So every new surveyor leaves his own number behind? I'm not sure which is worse - this or an actual pin cushion. Same effect.
In 3 of the states I am licensed in, it is required to Cap, Tag, Mark a found monument on the boundary that you honor if it is not so marked by a surveyor already or the mark has become illegible. It is suggested in the others. In my opinion, Illegible GLO Brass Caps should also be rehabilitated.
linebender, post: 425888, member: 449 wrote: We've lost our way if there are rules requiring a surveyors cap on a found corner monument. IMO That's like a dog sniffing a tire and replacing the scent with his own. So every new surveyor leaves his own number behind? I'm not sure which is worse - this or an actual pin cushion. Same effect.
There were some knock down drag out fights over that rule.
Not every new surveyor, like a corner record once one is filed it's good for every later survey unless there is a change in the monument or references. So only one #. 😉
But trust me they enforced it, even had a city engineer that would walk the subdivision and make sure each exterior corner had a brass/aluminum cap and pipe. You find an old 2" open pipe you had to replace it with a 24" long 2-1/2" diameter pipe with a 3" brass or aluminum cap, that was the minimum.
MightyMoe, post: 425866, member: 700 wrote: I've got lots of original stones with reference monuments. One guy would even dig in a nice brass cap at a 1' witness corner distance on a section line next to the stone.
I also find "reference" monuments as accessories to original stones. This pipe was driven only 4" into the ground. I found no record as to who set it. The pipe has a small patty of concrete to hold it firmly in place! At least it was a gorgeous fall day.
Cor. No. 1 of the Silent Friend Lode, MS 20504 (Mt. Silverheels to the left; Pikes Peak is the far mountain to the right)
Stone marked 1-SiF-20504 
Chiseled "X" in center of top face 
The pipe might qualify as a "braking device" to slow the stone's downhill slide. 🙂
It looks like the rock is armed with uh something LOL
I got $50 that says if you pull on the "pipe" the door opens to TDD's secret underground bunker.
Dave Karoly, post: 425908, member: 94 wrote: It looks like the rock is armed with uh something LOL
Is that a reference monument or are you happy to see me?
Gene Kooper, post: 425898, member: 9850 wrote: I also find "reference" monuments as accessories to original stones. This pipe was driven only 4" into the ground. I found no record as to who set it. The pipe has a small patty of concrete to hold it firmly in place! At least it was a gorgeous fall day.
Cor. No. 1 of the Silent Friend Lode, MS 20504 (Mt. Silverheels to the left; Pikes Peak is the far mountain to the right)
Stone marked 1-SiF-20504
Chiseled "X" in center of top face
I've got hundreds of those, it seems that surveyors can't help setting a piece of rebar or pipe next to a stone, I figure it's for help when it's snowy
Now finding the same companies capped iron rods touching each other is pretty special too! I wish I could find a picture or two in my stash...
MightyMoe, post: 425866, member: 700 wrote: It's cool that he stamped the lots on the cap, if he stenciled lot lines also, just think of the anal retentive overload some surveyors will have not being able to use the little intersection of the lines as the corner point.
Is anal-retentive supposed to have a hyphen? ;);)
That's what happens when you start using math in boundary work......."slapping the math on the ground."
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linebender, post: 425888, member: 449 wrote: We've lost our way if there are rules requiring a surveyors cap on a found corner monument. IMO That's like a dog sniffing a tire and replacing the scent with his own. So every new surveyor leaves his own number behind? I'm not sure which is worse - this or an actual pin cushion. Same effect.
Not if the previous guys work is respected, then you are left with a calling card to discuss their resolution to be referenced on you plan as your due diligence. I've only been licensed for 3 years, almost 15 years in the field, take it for what its worth, when first licensed I performed and ALTA for novelty under my license, prepared my Record of Survey, boom. To my surprise, going back out to set my monuments I found a newly set mag nail a few hundredths from my calc point, no survey in progress that I was aware of referencing this position, I tagged his position and moved on. The difference in position was well within my positional error. Shame on you for not tagging it so we could chat about it.
billvhill, post: 425859, member: 8398 wrote: In his defense, he is an older surveyor and believes a few tenths is on the money for a five acre rural tract.
i'm 41 and I agree with him
Argh!!!
Set a tack in one of the plastic caps. I see that a lot. I guess you can charge for setting a corner that way 😉
JPH, post: 425775, member: 6636 wrote: It's strange how in my early survey life, it seemed that the supervising LS's always looked for reasons to reject other found monuments.
Now, I almost never find a reason to reject found monuments, called for or otherwise. I presume that they're correct, check them, and usually hold them.
If you can find the monuments though. Doing a survey now and found the original section corner that was tied to the tract of land. Goes to the POB at a fence. Fence is there but no monuments. No other monument at all. *POOF*. So either they were destroyed, or never set. I leaning to the latter. Sadly the property is fenced and of course is overhangs the property line too. And this was supposed to be a quick $500 survey of 26 Acres (just kidding - don't flame me!)
David Kendall, post: 426387, member: 12659 wrote: i'm 41 and I agree with him
I also agree to a point, bit finding a monument within a few tenths of its record location is different then setting a monument within a few tenths.