No!

It is that misguided sense of duty to a community that at least locally near me has many surveyors working for wages. So NO, I owe the community nothing other than a good job for a good price and I am the one who determines the price.

Without sounding too altruistic I'd say absolutely. Without a community there's no requirement for stable boundaries to be perpetuated and no need for a surveyor. It wasn't until humans settled down to an agrarian society that stable boundaries became a necessity in order to maintain some semblance of order. So I'd have to say the responsibility of a surveyor to the community at large is on par with a doctor's hippocratic oath to first do no harm. Further, if I can't convince a client of the value of my work, why in the world would they want to compensate me for the experience, knowledge and skills that I bring to the table??ÿ

Before you can become licensed in Arkansas you must sign a pledge to "..protect the public welfare." It's buried in the other paperwork and I doubt most surveyors notice it; but, I take it very serious. It's what raises us from "career" to "profession".

This countries Cadastral Framework is a huge part of our infrastructure; HUGE.

Surveyors are the ones to maintain it. From City; to County; to State; it is up to Surveyors to make sure those original marks are perpetuated.?ÿ

National Data Base

Every jurisdiction has some form of 'Rules of Professional Responsibility', and every profession has a canon of ethics. They are the 'duty' we 'owe' our community.

Posted by: Williwaw

Without sounding too altruistic I'd say absolutely. Without a community there's no requirement for stable boundaries to be perpetuated and no need for a surveyor. It wasn't until humans settled down to an agrarian society that stable boundaries became a necessity in order to maintain some semblance of order. So I'd have to say the responsibility of a surveyor to the community at large is on par with a doctor's hippocratic oath to first do no harm. Further, if I can't convince a client of the value of my work, why in the world would they want to compensate me for the experience, knowledge and skills that I bring to the table??ÿ

This is right on. Because of our responsibility?ÿ to our continuity we can not act as as our client's advocates when it comes to boundaries. We can only advocate for the true legal position,?ÿ

I say Definitely Yes.

Start with educating you community about the need and importance of Professional Surveying.

Be sure that the public schools have a proper education that does not hinder any student from going into the profession.

Do programs in schools encouraging students into sciences.

Work with Scouts on survey associated programs.

Provide Pro Bono services to nonprofits especially for community wide projects. The greatest pleasure I had on any project was staking out serious fill to final grading for youth baseball fields. Between the fill, hauling, grading all donated by various contractors, I was probably contributing the least, but the final product was professional and every participant knew it.

Paul in PA

Change the question.

"Does a _________ 'owe' anything to their community?"

Does a banker, a baker, an engineer, a mechanic, any other number of occupations or professions?

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?ÿ

I appreciate everyone's opinion.

I recently listened to a City Planning Commission meeting.?ÿ In this case a developer and the Commission were getting their ducks in a row to move their proposal on to the City Council for approval.?ÿ At issue were three existing curb openings from the subject property on to an arterial street.?ÿ The developer wanted to redo an intersection for the main entrance to the commercial site, requiring closing off the three existing openings.?ÿ The property was properly zoned and this paving improvement was the only thing ultimately requiring council's approval.?ÿ The intersection redo rubbed some residential property owners the wrong way and planning was attempting to mediate the affair to get it on to council.

The developer rattled his sabre by mentioning the fact that the property didn't require rezoning and the PUD had been approved.?ÿ Nothing was stopping him from applying and receiving a building permit.?ÿ The closing of the three curb openings to the site were just aesthetics, he argued, and if he couldn't get his way he would just plow ahead with construction.?ÿ This would allow the three curb openings to remain and ultimately cause a traffic nightmare because of the site's proximity to a major intersection.?ÿ The planning commission members voted to approve his plan to close the openings and redo the entrance, to the dismay of several residential neighbors.

In a later conversation with the council person of my ward I mentioned to him the development plan had only the bare minimum parking.?ÿ If the developer had built with the curb opening remaining in place his parking would have had to be redrawn and he probably would have lost about six or seven parking spaces.?ÿ I mentioned that to me, it was a bluff that worked.

The councilman was aggravated at me for not speaking up.?ÿ He accused me of being on the developer's "side".?ÿ I explained I wasn't on the planning commission and was only in the audience as a city resident.?ÿ Speaking up would actually have been inappropriate.?ÿ The councilman knows how closely I have been to some development projects in the past.?ÿ In so many words he felt I had a responsibility to the community to have spoken up.?ÿ I courteously disagreed, explained it wasn't my position to educate commission members and bid him a good evening.

Oh well, there is no love lost between us. He will be gone in a year or so and the next numbskull will take his place.?ÿ My take is I have no "responsibility" in such matters to my community.?ÿ I could be wrong...but I don't feel that way.

?ÿ

I agree with you. You were there as a citizen not an advocate for a client and because of your experience if you had spoken up it may have been seen as a negative towards the developer. A previous poster commented about "alturism" and while I think that is great and have no problem being alturistic there are some who take it to them extreme and feel like they have a duty to work there a$$ off for nothing because they have the notion that being a surveyor is a public duty.

I believe in doing a good job for a good price but I have no public duty to do so for free or reduced wages like so many do. And maybe that is the phrase I am hung up on, "public duty" or even the generic "duty". We are not doctors and swearing a hipocratic oath to do no harm is not applicable.

A slight detour; Mr Cash stated: "The councilman was aggravated at me for not speaking up.  He accused me of being on the developer's "side".  I explained I wasn't on the planning commission and was only in the audience as a city resident.  Speaking up would actually have been inappropriate.  The councilman knows how closely I have been to some development projects in the past.  In so many words he felt I had a responsibility to the community to have spoken up.  I courteously disagreed, explained it wasn't my position to educate commission members and bid him a good evening."

The members of the Planning Commission have a duty to understand the proposals put brefore them.  If they cannot see a simple issue like parking, how can they approve new developments?

Ken

unless you were addressing your city council or planning commission as a professional, you had no duty to provide your comments unless asked.  FWIW, I think closing 3 curb cuts to a roadway likely outweighs maybe 20% of the parking requirements.

sleep well knowing that official will not likely get elected next go around

Yes. Consider the public disclosure aspects of the profession.

If?ÿ one happens to witness while in the course of a survey, any illegal?ÿ dumping of a toxic nature from suspicious drums to possible disposable of medical waste, hazardous equipment, disposal water from fracking, etc. , you are required to take?ÿ some type of action. Even if it's a simple illegal trash dumping of some magnitude that may be harmful. It doesn't have to be on the client's property.

I am very careful when it comes to commenting on other professionals plans, as it may be an ethics conflict. I am also aware that municipal boards and governing bodies have their own professionals that they should rely on first.

Paul in PA

Nearly all of us are benefitted by the community around us and what that community has done prior to our time. ?ÿThe infrastructure, schools, churches and so forth on which we depend are not our personal invention, they are a product of the history of the community supporters.

So, yes, we as individuals owe a great deal to our community. ?ÿHowever, the specific question revolves around our profession. ?ÿIn my opinion, we have an obligation to add in the ways we are uniquely qualified to add to the needs of the community. ?ÿSimilarly, those in other professions and trades should add in the ways they can.

As a surveyor in the public sector, my client is also the public themselves. I owe everything I can do for them. And this is especially true since government is presumed correct (cough), and we have the resources (and a fundamental responsibility IMO) to research, examine and evaluate every possible shred of corner and boundary evidence necessary to protect the public and the adjoiner's rights. "Calculated risk" should not- indeed, must not- be tolerated amongst public sector land surveyors. Just my opinion.

With context, you didn't "owe" anyone anything in that situation and said councilman was most likely butt hurt because he realized he got played and wanted someone to blame his ignorance on.?ÿ Certainly we (Professional Land Surveyors) have no professional duty to protect the public in matters of development site planning.?ÿ?ÿIn your situation it really boils down to you.?ÿ If you felt closing the 3 curb cuts in favor of a new single improved intersection is better then let the bluff play out and chuckle to yourself (then post about it here of course); if you felt it was harmful to your community at large then say something but do so as someone experienced with the nuance of land development not because of some perceived duty mandated by your license.?ÿ Or maybe just stand up and call the bluff because you can't stand bluffers...whatever the case, you being a PLS plays ZERO roll in your decision, one way or the other.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ

Now that I have read Paden's post about the planning commission meeting------------------I face this issue somewhat frequently. ?ÿI attend most weekly meetings of the county commission. ?ÿI have a very small contractual arrangement with them but that is rarely the reason for attending. ?ÿMost of the time I am Joe Citizen, like Paden this time. ?ÿFrequently, ?ÿI could share my personal (not professional) input during the meeting. ?ÿNormally I do not. ?ÿLater, like Paden, I may share information with one of the commissioners or a department head. ?ÿIt is up to them to decide what they do, if anything, ?ÿWhere it gets tough is when they are discussing planning involving other providers of services to the county. ?ÿSometimes the commissioners are incredibly ignorant of things where I have a huge amount of knowledge. ?ÿIt is tough to keep from leaping up and telling them just how ignorant they are. ?ÿAs one who volunteers on several boards I am critically aware of how I would view someone doing that to one of my boards.

HC

About 20 years ago I went to one of the city council meetings and I had one of those irresistible impulses where I actually DID stand and tell one of the Council members that he was a "damned moron who has no business making important decisions".