An old buddy of mine is an electrical engineer and we go way back to climbing peaks. His bread and butter is designing and laying out electrical distribution systems and he is very good at what he does. Long story short I get a call from him and he's acquired a Topcon gun and controller and wants me to teach him how to use it. My instinct knowing him as an arrogant but sometimes generous sob that I can handle only in low dosages most times, is this is not a good idea. I told him straight up that he isn't licensed to survey and he's potentially opening himself up to some serious grief. I can only teach him enough in a day for him to get himself into some serious trouble. "I'm only going to do constructions surveying layout". The simple truth is very few distribution lines are surveyed in without regard to the location of easements that are based on property lines, which would get him into a licensing conflict and in my eyes would make me an accessory. If he wants to hang himself, I don't feel obligated to teach him how to tie a noose. Good friends should be honest with each other, only he doesn't quite see it that way and suggested I'm just protecting my turf. I told him as nicely as I could muster to go pleasure himself.
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What sayeth you?
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
We've got utility pole crews that use TS for span lengths and line...and most of them have a higher than average Neanderthal DNA index.?ÿ TS are not a bad tool to use in various applications.
Help him find a good Topcon and give him some cursory instructions on operations.?ÿ I'm sure he'll give you a call when he runs into a wrinkle.?ÿ Who knows? He might develop better respect for what it is that you do...and it may expose him to a little humility (or maybe liability).?ÿ That would be a win in my book.
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He should know better. That??s the ??Engineer? talking. ????. Your last sentence is appropriate. ???
Sounds like you have good instincts on this one, go with them and let him get his training from youtube or others.?ÿ If he insists, charge him your hour rate for training.?ÿ My 2 cents, Jp
What paden said.?ÿ It's just a tool.?ÿ Everybody from concrete masons to carpenters to skyscraper glaziers to ironworkers to miners to utility workers is using total stations these days.?ÿ I don't have high hopes that an electrical engineer could be successfully added to that list, but it's worth a shot.
I have mixed feelings. It's not that I object to taking an afternoon to show him the basics of using the gun & DC. That much I'd be happy to do. It's just coordinate geometry and not rocket science. The issue I have is that I strongly suspect he will push the limits well beyond his abilities. As long as everything goes smoothly, it will be a useful tool for him, but as we all know with Murphy's Law, when everything gets gobbed up, and it will, I'm the one that's going to get the phone calls that can't wait to try and help him figure out where things went sideways. It would takes a lot longer than an afternoon to get him anywhere near being competent using it, but his attitude is this should only take a few hours at the most. The only upside I see is a "I told you so."
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
You're probably not the only friend he has that knows how he is...but hangs around anyway.?ÿ Be a buddy and help him out as much as you can.?ÿ And a healthy "I told you so" goes well served with cold beer.?ÿ?ÿ
Since I left college, not many people have ever been wanting to teach me how to use any tool from operating a Wild distomat to basic CADD. And that includes coworkers, renters or friends in the business.
Mostly what I know is from crash course hands on self taught sessions of reading the manual and performing the functions that are explained in text over and over until I have built up some confidence to begin testing it out on an actual project.
That has led me to the conclusion that if someone can not take the manual for the machine and learn how to use it, they don't need to be out there charging people for using it.
Any new hands that want to learn to traverse have to do the same thing that I did. Go out to the practice course in my back yard, find the hubs and sideshots on a drawing, set up the backsite, TS and foresites and sideshots, shoot the traverse and record it in a field book or data collector with a new sketch of what they have done and if it closes good enough in comparison to all the former runs, I will give them an opportunity to be an IMan.
The ones that think themselves too good to do that hour long task, well, they have signed up for the wrong job.
Be a buddy and help him out as much as you can - give him paden's number. I think that's all the help your friend needs from you, Williwaw. ???¦?ÿ
Your friend will likely shoot himself in the foot with those easements, etc. You're better off not handing him the ammunition.
If the engineer is truly only asking for help setting up and running the equipment, I see nothing wrong with granting them some time. But once the meter drops on the lesson I would stick to basics and not move beyond that.?ÿ ?ÿI've been wrong about people so many times to be wary of what my gut says sometimes.?ÿ
You should ask for a letter describing what you did for them and insert it into your PDH file.?ÿ
I would never teach a friend how to do this as the friendship will rapidly evaporate when the construction layout goes sideways.
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He can learn from you or he can watch it on youtube. Everything is available online.
Seems about split amongst the crowd.?ÿ My opinion is to help teach but charge to help correct anything.?ÿ That would put some limits on the negative side of this endeavor.?ÿ
It sounds like you do not trust this individual professionally.?ÿ
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It's not a matter of professional trust but rather one of professional good judgement. My concern is simply my being licensed means that I am suppose to know better than to assist or facilitate someone in operating outside of their area of licensed expertise.?ÿ
I suppose my tag line of paranoia comes into play in this. Something along the lines 'No good deed goes unpunished' business.?ÿ
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Would a Chemist, teach their meth head friend, how to make meth? Just because you can doesn't mean you should or have too.
If I was Walter White in Breaking Bad, had stage 3 lung cancer and there was some serious financial incentive to all of this, I just might be tempted!
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
No good deed goes unpunished is a powerful truth. Perhaps your hesitancy is intuition to be heeded.
In the general case I look at a total station as being just a tool like a hammer or something and am pretty open to sharing what I know about using them if I have some motivation. That said, when it comes down to it I am often more conservative when the cases move from general to particular so I can relate to trepidation.
Does your guilt end at being an accessory to surveying without a license? What if he has to resort to YouTube videos or a less skilled teacher than yourself and THEN commits a more heinous mistake that you could have prevented? Both sides of the argument are true though. It IS just a tool, but those easements aren??t gonna locate themselves.
Im all for people knowing how to use a tool properly, but equally they need to know when NOT to use the tool and get in somebody who does know.