Control Mark in Freeway ROW

What if you parked on Rio Oso Road and a receiver just happened to walk from your truck to the mark then after two hours it walked back to your truck?

You could wait for it in your truck.

This is probably one of those times where it might be better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

> What if you parked on Rio Oso Road and a receiver just happened to walk from your truck to the mark then after two hours it walked back to your truck?

In my experience, Caltrans inspectors always seem to drive by whenever I have equipment set up inside the ROW. Since this spot will also be used as an RTK base for half a day or so, and I don't want to be tearing down the base while the rover is trying to get shots a few miles away, a short total station tie seems like a good way to go.

Here's an idea. Stop for about one minute along the highway and superglue a nail, pointing upward on the center of the marker. Later, appear on the adjoining street, set two control points. Set up on one, backsight the other, then shoot the nail. Repeat the process by setting on the other control and backsighting the first, then shoot the nail. Simple triangulation. If elevation is a big deal, simply make note of the deflection angle to the nail versus deflection angle of the backsight in each case. It'll all work out in the long run.

That's ob$cene. But the price of forgiveness might be higher, so you'd better know its amount.

That ROW apparently belongs to the State Government and is not to be trespassed on by the people. Are any other states as bad as California about this?

:good: You'd have a much better chance of getting away with this than trying to get a multi-hour occupation. Can you jump the fence, so as to avoid stopping a vehicle along the highway and calling attention to yourself? With my luck, there'd be a cop or a CALTRANS car right behind me.

> Here's an idea.

Good idea for some applications, but it won't fly in this case. Firstly because this is a geodetic control project, and I'll be producing a detailed report describing personnel, equipment and methods for review by a state agency. (I don't want to have to describe how I derived the standard positional error of a nail balanced on top of a disk and shot reflectorless.) Secondly, the mark is recessed in a monument well that's flush with the weed-covered ground; it'd take a mighty long nail to get above all of that in order to be visible from the nearby temporary station.

I would go with the two eccentric points for OPUS.
Then return at a time when traffic is light and when no inspectors would be around like a very early weekend morning and make the tie.
It doesn't look like a major freeway.
If you wore an orange jumpsuit with a trash bag , you would be inconspicuous 🙂

> If you wore an orange jumpsuit with a trash bag , you would be inconspicuous

In Louisiana, perhaps. :>

Provided the mission planning allows, can you do it at night or on a weekend?

State workers don't generally work after 5ish or on weekends...

Wow. I'm glad its not like that here in New Hampshire. I just call the local state police office and tell them where I'm going to be and what time so the local officers know what I'm doing. They never have a problem with that.

I was once pulled over on the interstate after shooting in some ROW monuments and turning around in the median. Cop said, "That's illegal from here to California"

I guess he was right.

Working on a DOT ROW project; a HP stopped and asked for my permit to be in the ROW, I said I don't have one but it's OK since I'm working on a DOT project.

He says that doesn't matter and will let me off this time but I need to get a permit. I ask the local office and they say that's not possible to do. Huh?

So I came up with the solution: I have one of those yellow flashers that mounts on the roof of the truck. Put it on and make it flash while working and you can go anywhere. No one bothers you.

> He says that doesn't matter and will let me off this time but I need to get a permit. I ask the local office and they say that's not possible to do. Huh?

The world has changed over time. It use to be that unless there was a law against something, it was ok...or legal.

Nowadays everything is illegal..unless you have the proper permit.

I miss Ted.

Profound. And true.

I have a couple of thoughts on this...Because of the nature of my work (short duration photo or lidar control jobs anywhere and everywhere in the US), it is impossible to get permission every time I want to occupy a point inside the ROW. Therefore I practice outlaw surveying. Same with trespassing, sometimes it can't be helped and I never know ahead of time who/where/when. The key is to be nice when someone stops and if the situation warrants, plead ignorance.

On the other hand, with so many CORS, especially in California, I don't see the need to occupy a lot of ground stations. Many times I don't occupy any published marks. I did a project last week in a northern midwest state, and I did occupy three BMs, two of which were inside an interstate ROW, but only because I wanted to tie my bases together and these marks were convenient to do that. Several state troopers drove by, no problem.

I did a project that covered the entire west coast a few years ago. There were so many PBO stations and others that we didn't occupy any other stations. In fact, I was hesitant to occupy ground stations because who knows how good the coordinates are with the movement out there, while PBO's and other CORS are constantly monitored and updated.

And lastly, why do people think it necessary to occupy a published mark with RTK? I would much rather put the base in a safe secure location and then tie in the mark with a couple of occupations, or position it off of a CORS. We had occasion last week to make a quick tie to a CORS ground point (for an elevation tie), and another crew came along and was going to occupy it all day. Almost all of my base points are "non-monumented".

Good Lord......Thank God NC is not this crazy!!

Jim,

As an alternate approach, instead of going through Encroachment Permits
(they generally don't have a clue about surveying), go through the D3 land survey office. And go there prepared by remembering Section 8774(c) of the LS Act which states:

(c) When required for a property survey, monuments within a freeway right-of-way shall be referenced to usable points outside the access control line by the agency having jurisdiction over the freeway when requested in writing by the registered civil engineer or licensed land surveyor who is to perform the property survey. The work shall be done within a reasonable time period by the agency in direct cooperation with the engineer or surveyor and at no charge to him or her.

Hope this helps. If you find resistance let me know and I can elevate it within CT.

BTW and as an FYI, no traffic control should be required for what you propose. You'd be too far off to even have a simple shoulder closure required. The EP office is simply giving you a standard answer without considering your stated situation.

" the expense of occupying this mark can't be borne by the project."

$492.00 in California? Sounds like a bargain. How tight could the budget be that $492 couldn't be soaked up somewhere? Even at that I would think the extra spent on a work around would account for a good part of that.

I don't like being held hostage by the powers to be, but **it happens all the time.