In spite of my remark above ....
I agree with you. :good:
I would think that is was more the fault of the County Attorney or the County Sheriff that the Sheriff's Deed referred to a parcel number rather than an actual description of the property being sold. At least around here, I don't think the client has any say at all about what goes into the description of the land in a Sheriff's Deed and would not be able to force the issue even if they wanted to. Those deeds have so many weasel words and disclaimers written into them, that it is a wonder that they even convey anything.
In spite of my remark above ....
I agree with that. I've put parcel numbers in descriptions along with the book, page, entry number. etc. BUT I've never just referred to the tax number alone and don't believe it's proper.
I Prefer Calls To Parcel Numbers, They Are More Durable
Tax parcel numbers will outlast N/F Owners or DBV/Pg plus they are more useful.
I am very happy with the cadasteral information around here. I input DBV/Pg and that is all I get. I input Full Name and that is what I get, Not Full A. Name or Full Name Jr.
But when I input Map/Block/Lot I get deeds, easements (Miscelaneous Book), liens, maps, mortgages, releases. Possibly the only way to get sheriff and tax sales.
Assume I have a deed referencing adjoiner as M/B/L 1/2/3 and it has been subdivided, maps will give me the filed map a bonus when surveying a 250 year old compass and perches deed. Or I may already know I am abutted by a filed map, but the tax parcel numbers link to to a map for lot line adjustments.
I do not expect a parcel deed to give me all the information I need without an independant diligent search. I only expect it to give a clue of what the surveyor did, or at least if there was a surveyor.
In this area, more than any other families stay put for a long time. One parcel may have three generations of owners and no new deeds.
Paul in PA
The primary county I work in changed their tax parcel numbering system about 15 years ago. If I found a description today based on the old numbering system, it would be a problem.
Is it any different than calling to the "east line of Jim Brown's land"? Ownership changes over time; tax parcels change over time.
Bad practice in my opinion.
Changed Tax Parcel Numbers
Those records do not simply disappear.
Last year I had to read tax records back to 1940, every tenth year on microfilm to find a parcel owner for which I could find a deed.
That is what research is.
Search and search again.
Paul in PA
I often see old easements that are written as the South 10 feet of tax parcel 123-45-678, but the problem is that was fifty years ago, the tax parcel numbers have changed several times, and there is no record of what the tax parcels used to be fifty years ago.
Funny this should come up. I am currently working with the Town to resolve a bunch of tax takings. These parcels were taken using the available information of the time, which was the then current tax maps and parcels.
Now town counsel insists on a survey to prove that the current map and parcel is the same piece of land as previously shown on the "old" maps.
I can understand the difficulty when the Tax map and Parcel number are all that is referenced in a deed, but sometimes it is the only description available to the "lay person" or attorney.
I reference deed book and page numbers on my surveys, along with street addresses of all the abutters.
It wasn't that long ago that implementation of 911 required that streets and numbering systems be redefined, so now I don't even trust street addresses!!
I don't blame the client, the problem is in the County Attorney's office because they pass it down to someone at the tax office to describe the property. In their files exists the last legal description and with the way Sheriff auctions occur, they use tax info to expedite the sale rather than establishing real title to the property, which can be considered in limbo on many such transactions.
The expectation of being contested is in the county's favor because if the past owner cannot pay the taxes, they will not be able to bear the cost to fight for the property and no courts have fully tested these methods.
My thinking is that if the winner of the auction is willing to accept such a piece of crap document, then they should spend the time to find out what they should be receiving and maybe they will complain to the proper authorities.
When someone shows up with one, they have paid pennies on a dollar for the property and expect the same out of the price to survey.
This allows the client to understand the time consuming efforts in research needed to simply identify the property by proper deed description, of which, there is little information on the Sheriff's deed to begin a proper title search, especially in this county.
Once the ownership changes, the past owners information is not retrievable from the county's system and it sometimes takes a door to door survey to find out who owned what, that is after you can physically locate the property.
Since everyone is wanting to save money, they can do the footwork themselves and let me get some work done for clients that appreciate what I do.
You're right about the bargain hunting buyers of foreclosed properties and their expectations of having it surveyed out or located for them cheaply. There is one tract of land that shows up every so often at the foreclosure sale. It is for several one acre lots out of the middle of a 100 acre/100 lot subdivision that is about 100 years old. As far as I can tell, none of the lots were ever surveyed out and it would require someone to survey out the entire 100 acre tract, split it out and stake it. None of the surveyors around here will touch it and it never fails that some out of town surveyor shows up with the job and is wondering where it is located or if we have ever done any work in that subdivision. Sometimes when the buyers of foreclosed tracts show up in the office, I get this picture in my mind of the proverbial old client that shows up in the mechanics garage with a half put together engine in a wheelbarrow.
Don,
I'm seeing the same thing here in western MA, related to tax takings by municipalities. They reference the assessors lot number only, even when better descriptions are available at the Registry of Deeds. It creates problems sorting out what was conveyed, when such limited effort is made to describe the conveyance.
In a particular deed which I have reviewed, the Town conveyed by reference to assessors id number, which was a PORTION of a prior recorded deed. But the description read "being the same as" the prior recorded deed. So, did the Town convey only a portion or the whole thing? Messy.
Al
I was working on some deeds in PA and found one that was from a tax sale. The person who was foreclosed on appeared to have sold all the land in his deed several years before the tax sale. I think the tax sale, which was only listed as assessors parcel number, was for land that only exists in the tax map. Thankfully the pipeline was rerouted for other reasons and I didn't have to figure it out fully.