The actress, Alyson Hannigan, said this phrase in a movie nearly 25 years ago that was picked up by viewers and used repeatedly for a time.
Many times I have wanted to start a true surveying story here by starting with?ÿ
This one time, at band camp, .................
This one time, at band camp, we were asked to do a mortgage title inspection to cut a couple of acres around a house off of an aliquot part.?ÿ We began doing the job and quickly realized the south boundary would run right through a nearly new metal building.?ÿ Something seemed amiss.?ÿ Discovered that if you added 30 feet to the north-south dimensions everything worked great.?ÿ Called the lender who had requested the job and explained the problem.?ÿ She called the owner, a recent divorcee, who ended up with the house and two acres while the ex-husband was to get the other 78 acres.?ÿ The owner said that she and her now ex-husband had measured it out themselves when they had mortgaged just the house several years back.?ÿ She said,?ÿ "You start at the corner post at the end of the fence, then.............."?ÿ The problem was that the deed very clearly stated ,"Beginning at the northeast corner of the east half of the northwest quarter of ..........."
The job then became a true survey to correct the deed.?ÿ The ex-husband had to sign off on this, of course.?ÿ Not a problem in this case.?ÿ But, if he had been in a vengeful mood, he could have made her pay dearly for their mistake.?ÿ Staking the deed and ignoring the real world would have been a huge mistake.
BTW, if you want to know what Alyson Hannigan actually said in?ÿ (1999) American Pie (although she used it repeatedly with different endings) involving a flute you will need to Google that for yourself.?ÿ I'm not about to complete the sentence here.
"deed staked" must mean something other than what I'm thinking.?ÿ I've definitely staked per the deed.?ÿ No other physical evidence around, so I staked out what the deed called for.?ÿ Not really sure why that would be considered a bad thing
I think "math staked" is maybe a better term.?ÿ
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We have encountered similar issues many times per year over the decades.?ÿ It normally comes down to foolish people writing their own deed descriptions without a survey.?ÿ Sometimes it is foolish attorneys, lenders, etc. attempting to save their clients the cost of a survey by writing the description for them.
This eventually leads to a more expensive survey to fix the problems.?ÿ Such as a deed that doesn't close by 50 feet.?ÿ They measured fences and called out north/south/east/west on each length of fence but neglected to say they were following fences that ran off significantly from north/south/east/west and then summed up the directions (assume those that went "west") instead of measuring (east) the closing distance.
I didn't anticipate this would veer off into a drive through liquor store but you never know.?ÿ
At what point do you alert your client that there's a potential issue??ÿ
Before you complete a survey that is almost guaranteed to cause the visitation of the surveyor to be a calamity to the neighborhood.
How much research and field work do you do before you have that conversation (assuming you DO have the conversation)?
All that is required to obtain all the facts.
Is it ever appropriate to "just set the stakes and walk away"?
Walking away may have a wide meaning. To me it means set your marks and not discuss the results with either party with no regard to the consequences should one or the other act on where the marks are. For example, in this scenario building or attempting to build a fence on the driveway. It might be more appropriate to just walk away and not set stakes if both parties can't be reasonable.?ÿ
In this scenario as an example, the historical aerial photos dating back to the conveyance of each parcel 20 years ago may have shown that the trees were planted on a use line between a lawn on the right and a field on the left. That line may or may not hold up in court depending on how the evidence is presented.?ÿ Even though the trees may not meet the time requirement for establishment of a line was there a visible line of use before that? When the land was originally conveyed was the use line visible and was it ever discussed? Did the owners after the original conveyance treat the use line as the boundary by not going past??ÿ These are all questions that need answers to determine a boundary location that have nothing to do with deed measurements. If a surveyor is not allowed or unable to determine the boundary location based on those facts and suggest a remedy that the owners agree to its time to walk. To do otherwise might lead one or the other owner to believe they paid good money to a well thought of company and by god that's my line come hell or high water.?ÿ
@andy-bruner now your story is given me flashbacks from and old grumpy RLS. He would say why didn??t you find or locate this pin or corner. I said we didn??t find it. He said did you look. Yes sir we didn??t get a sounding from locator. He would say did you know where it was supposed to be. Yes sir we computed it off the other found corners and looked again. He said did you DIG. ?ÿNo sir. Go back and dig its not gone dig son dig.?ÿ
He was almost always right. He embraced technology actually but he did not trust it so we always dug.?ÿ
We have frequently intentionally set new boundaries such that they are out away from existing tree lines with horrible old fences.?ÿ That way a new fence can be constructed and the trees can stay on whichever side wants to keep the trees.?ÿ Otherwise, the buyer usually wants to remove the trees and construct a new fence.?ÿ That involves both parties agreeing and normally sharing the expense.?ÿ This way they only share the cost of the new fence.
Sometimes historical views have nothing to do with where the line was chosen to be set.
I'm not licensed (yet), and although I've been working as a technician for 22+ years I don't have a lot of exposure to boundary disputes/discrepancies involving residential properties.?ÿ I'm really interested to read about how you fine folks handle these situations.?ÿ At what point do you alert your client that there's a potential issue??ÿ How much research and field work do you do before you have that conversation (assuming you DO have the conversation)? Is it ever appropriate to "just set the stakes and walk away"??ÿ I can feel this line of thinking spawning more questions as I type this so I'm going to stop now. 🙂
Well, hopefully the person doing the fieldwork would have taken a few shots on the driveway, fence, and tree line in addition to tying whatever monuments were out there so the PLS could see the problem before they create the problem.
Anyway, I'd go to the client and show them what I've found.?ÿ It may be the case that the neighbor has maintained the strip or wedge long enough to have gained title to it, so in that case simply setting the pins and walking away is negligent, imo.
As far as that ever being appropriate... I dunno, maybe if the same person owned both parcels.
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My suggestion...
Years ago, I set the corners (in a county in which mine was the only survey business in the county) where the deed directed them to go (ie in the middle of the road...my situation was different and included a building). Coming only months after having the Florida Supreme Court uphold my survey in a Florida landmark case (Seddon v Harpster), I was feeling proud and confident.
Every one in that part of the county quickly became aware of a ??situation?.
An ??outsider? survey company came in and they set the corners on the old fence line.
Every one in that part of the county quickly became aware of the other surveyors corners and that they differed from mine.
In a few months this went to court. The court ruled possession/acquiescence satisfied the fenceline being the ??boundary?. I had expected the court to rule this way...it was no surprise. However, prior to the court ruling, my survey was accurate in that I was monumenting the deed, and this was acknowledged by the court.
However, it was very easy for the neighbors to see that my survey was ??wrong?, because they had seen my corners in the road were pulled up as directed by the court. It was only through the help and understanding of an influential neighbor who understood what had happened, and that my survey was not ??wrong?, that I was able to resurrect my reputation. That was over 40 years ago.
Ever since, anytime I encounter a similar situation I withhold setting monumentation until I am directed, by either the court or an attorney, on where to place the corners. I do the research and the field work, then prepare the map showing enough detail to convey to the parties what is going on, then wait for direction to set the corners either ??in the middle of the road?, or ??in the fenceline?. If you simply go out and set the corners in the fenceline, you are taking it upon yourself (by your actions) to persuade the person who had the road built, that his ownership extends to the fenceline. By doing this you are only inviting and welcoming potential problems which you neither want nor need.
Just from one pic without any supporting info, how can anyone make a call??ÿ Is there an easement, or an agreement??ÿ ?ÿMay be a non-issue.?ÿ Might be huge.?ÿ ?ÿ
By doing this you are only inviting and welcoming potential problems which you neither want nor need.
True, and vice versa. Good experience story too.?ÿ
if you haven't dug a 5 ft hole you're not trying hard enough.... ?????ÿ
It normally comes down to foolish people writing their own deed descriptions without a survey.?ÿ Sometimes it is foolish attorneys, lenders, etc. attempting to save their clients the cost of a survey by writing the description for them.
I deal with this a lot.?ÿ When you find pipes or gun barrels, the distances don't match the deed at all.?ÿ When I don't find any monuments, just work it back to whoever came out first, give them their calls, and work from there.
