Bearing Basis from Thin Air

So..what is the issue? Did the original plat state it was on true north? Are you required to have your surveys based on a recoverable bearing basis?

> So..what is the issue? Did the original plat state it was on true north?

I'm with NYLS on this one....I don't see what would matter a whole lot about the plat bearing base being on true north, unless it clearly stated on the plat that it was. Just a hunch but I'd bet that they probably held a line from the deed as north and went with it. I certainly wouldn't be a solution looking for a problem on this one Ken.

Most of the time using GPS on a lot survey is OVERKILL. I would have used one line from the plat as a bearing basis (and state that fact). All other dimensions would be shown as platted and measured. There's no need to make things difficult.

I've got to agree with you guys.

I really don't care what the basis of bearings is - I'm not going to base any of the lines just on a calc'ed bearing or coordinate. As long as there are monuments and the PL/survey can be retraced by the information on the plat, I'm good.

For years I had a note on all my plats saying:

"All bearings are calculated from angles turned and a single magnetic observation".

As long as I monument the ends of the lines (and the monuments aren't destroyed) a surveyor should be able to find all the corners even if my bearings are "off". It's not the bearing in and of itself, it's the relationship of the bearings.

Andy

They're assumed.

It really doesn't matter anymore once it becomes Lot 2, Block "D", Hector Elizondo Addition to the City of Atlantis.

As to the real question, who knows. And why should one care. You found the monuments and they agree darn well with record. Everything else is window dressing on the plat.

Perhaps the surveyor for the subdivision used NORTH for one side of the parent tract and everything else fell however it fell. His NORTH being whatever it really was by some definition between those to monuments.

It used to be you had to go to a higher altitude, to get thin air, but evidently some has leaked down there to Texas, and caused trouble.

I will keep that in mind, for a Basis of Bearings "Thin Air".

But, then I wonder, would "Thick Air" remedy the problem?

Colorado now (apparently) allows the smoking of pot. Does that thicken the air, for the mile high city?

I have been tempted to put this on on a plat: Basis of Bearings, UP the page is North, taken by Solar Observation. (I looked at the sun, and estimated north!)

Have a good day!

Nate

It was common practice in upstate NY for many surveyors to just assume a cardinal direction and go. It confused the heck out of landowners who assumed that north was magnetic and they could follow their deed with a compass. I think its piss poor practice. But then again most of the guys I worked with had worse practices than that.

> It was common practice in upstate NY for many surveyors to just assume a cardinal direction and go. It confused the heck out of landowners who assumed that north was magnetic and they could follow their deed with a compass. I think its piss poor practice. But then again most of the guys I worked with had worse practices than that.

Huh, I kind of like even more now - will prevent the amateurs from DIY surveying.

Surveying is not the only use for a plat. It can be used for construction, taxation, hiking, gardening, laying out amateur radio antennas, parking a boat trailer, and more. If the state legislature found out surveyors deliberately make it hard for their customers to use their plats, they would abolish land surveyor licensure and would be right to do so.

Kent,

correct me if I'm wrong...but doesn't Texas place a heavier weight (in an order of "calls") on the bearing of a line than a lot of other States?

Bearings are virtually useless in Oklahoma..while distances in the deed are just under monuments. Apparently a lot of other States are similar to Oklahoma.

:good:

> Surveying is not the only use for a plat. It can be used for construction, taxation, hiking, gardening, laying out amateur radio antennas, parking a boat trailer, and more. If the state legislature found out surveyors deliberately make it hard for their customers to use their plats, they would abolish land surveyor licensure and would be right to do so.

I'm sorry, I thought that my plats were for a specific client and his specific needs. It never occurred to me that I should make them more user-friendly so that they can be the basis for anyone's use for whatever they like.

The relative bearings are 0°2' out and no one cares? I mean 30 years ago, I could go out with an old transit and turn better angles than that. We might as well let the GIS guys dictate the boundaries with their coordinates, and the land owner can go out with their handheld and set their own.

I go through much greater care to set corners than I expect someone to lay out a sewer line. Even if you RTK'd in corners and then checked them on another day with a different satellite constellation I suspect you could do better than that. So from what I read, the subdivision surveyor must have sent his boys out with a Rover and said to just set the corners at these coordinates and go home. We were arguing about that type of work many years ago when it meant setting up in the middle of the field and "ray-and-spray"ing in all the coordinates from one setup and not checking them. Yes, it gets done all the time, but I consider it still unacceptable.

It's frustrating to me. I guess it will happen and we have to deal with it all the time, but why is no one ever held accountable for not doing an adequate survey with the appropriate tools?

So you think your client only wants the plat to buy the house, and once he buys it, he no longer cares where his property line is?

Come on guys. concerned about 2 minutes of angle in 700 foot line? Hit the corner with a lawn mower and it would be out that much. How about describing the lot based strictly on angles and just show a north arrow on the plot? Then what would you do. As far as ny surveyors using a magnetic bearing for a general north direction, you have to remember that many of the lines run through the Adirondacks were run with a staff compass and a two chain tape in their day, remember, you are supposed to walk in the footsteps of the original surveyor. All the modern tools are great, but just like the advent of the calculator, "s____ goes in and s____ comes out". Or how about turning angles with a one minute instrument and then showing the bearings between lines to the nearest second because that was what the calculated inverse was? I could go on and on.

Bearing Basis for Profit

An assumed bearing along a previously monumented line, USUALLY section line down the middle of a roadway, has long been the standard for basis of bearing round here.

It was most useful to the client becuase that's how he/she oriented his/herself with respect to the property boundary. When GPS/field to finish first came in vogue we started seeing N01-54-51E and I generally cussed it.

More importantly, almost all the clients despised it. Assuming a bearing literally generated work for some of us because clients felt like they understood the end product, our plat, better than the competition.

Fast forward +/-15yrs. Although I still assume bearings, I can see it ending. The rural surveys dominating my work load are farmed with vehicles driven by RTK Network GPS-Literally. Sometime in the next few years N01-54-51E will have more meaning to my clients.

Steve

Kent,

> correct me if I'm wrong...but doesn't Texas place a heavier weight (in an order of "calls") on the bearing of a line than a lot of other States?

Yes, the 1867 decision of the Texas Supreme Court in Stafford v. King established the rule of construction that a call for direction should ordinarily be considered to be more reliable than a call for distance. That was a recognition of a basic fact of the era when long lines were run by compass and distances chained by persons who typically weren't skilled surveyors.

The more general principle is that the footsteps of the original surveyor are to be followed in determining boundaries and the most certain elements of a description are to take precedence over those more prone to error. In the case of that subdivision, where the rear and front lines were apparently run more or less independently, following the footsteps would mean reconstructing each and then letting the calculated side lines be whatever they turn out to be.