We recently requested coordinates for boundary monuments for a small portion of a USACE lake. The only contact person we have is the chief ranger, who keeps sending coordinates rounded to the nearest foot. She says that's all they have, to which I call BS. Is there an online source or a specific department in the C.O.E. where the data is kept??ÿ
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
They have a survey department at the District Offices.
If you are trying to find corners, wouldn't coordinates to the nearest foot get you in the ball park?
If you are trying to find corners, wouldn't coordinates to the nearest foot get you in the ball park?
There are a few points missing, so I'll be doing some calcs using the coordinates and what we find in the field. Not good enough for that.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
The districts that I have worked for/with all have a survey department of some sort, and all their projects have mapping called the "Monumented Project Boundary" which has state plane coordinates for each monument, bearings and distances between them, and info on how they are stamped. These aren't recorded maps, but the survey department should have copies of them?ÿ
What are you trying to do that coordinates to the nearest foot are not good enough?
What are you trying to do that coordinates to the nearest foot are not good enough?
We will have to reset a few missing corners.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
What are you trying to do that coordinates to the nearest foot are not good enough?
We will have to reset a few missing corners.
By coordinates??ÿ
Getting corner coordinates to the nearest foot from a ranger is not unexpected. Working from COE taking documents you find a segment of the outbound that exceeds your working area by 3 and go look for them. Then you use that data and go find them and work up better coordinates for the missing points, best fitting in your found coordinates. Then go and set the missing corners and expect the COE to tell you you are wrong. They may tell you exactly how wrong and then you correct them.?ÿ
I would not be setting any corners along COE unless I had been asked by the COE to do them. Given that that type of conversation is way above the rangers pay grade you may be going in the wrong direction.
Paul in PA
Some of the districts have State Plane on their boundary monuments but it is usually not quality enough that you can reset from coordinates, it is strictly close enough to find the brass cap. Someone in Real Estate division or at the project office should have a document that gives the bearing and distance between monuments. From this you should be able to find the existing monuments. I have seen multiple cases where a surveyor comes in and can't find the Corps Monument, then sets a new monument only to later discover that the original Corps monument had a foot of silt over it and it takes a shovel to find it. One thing you should do is research the "Quite Title Act" that will help you with boundary determination. The boundary information should be in the U-SMART database, usmart.usace.army.mil as per ER 11101-8170, but most districts have not populated that database with the boundary information. If I knew the State and District you are dealing with, I may be able to point you to the surveying POC, but many of the districts do not have a surveyor on staff so you would have to go to the Real Estate Division.
OUAT I was working on Fort Lewis, in Washington. Fort Lewis is one of the biggest, baddest, army bases this country has.?ÿ The COE was involved in a major upgrade of barracks and rail facilities. This was at a time that the army was ramping up for the long haul in Iraq.
I asked for the base survey control. What I got, weeks later, was a comma delimited ascii file of about a dozen points. The descriptors were non-specific or non-existent. I eventually guessed that they were on NAD27 datum.?ÿ I searched all the locations listed, finding a bent 3/8" IR at one location and mag nails in asphalt at a couple others. Struck out on all the others and established the control I needed using OPUS and CORPSCON.?ÿ
So I'm not at all surprised that you are having trouble getting control from the COE. I'm given to understand that there are a couple of knowledgeable surveyors in the organization, but not in every office by any means.?ÿ?ÿ
Stacy Carroll - I am going to take a guess that you are working on a Savannah District project. Savannah District is in the same division as my district, Wilmington District. We are both in South Atlantic Division. I work with them all of the time as their Real Estate office services my district. Give me a call at the office today and I can help you get whatever information is available for the project you are working on.
Heck, you might even be working as a subcontractor to one of my contractors surveying a large chunk of the Lake Hartwell Boundary. I have had a difficult time in the recent past explaining to some USACE Rangers that coordinates don??t necessarily define a Boundary and that coordinates are pretty far down the list in the order of importance of conflicting elements. I??ll be in the office by 7:00AM.
Jim Jacaruso
910-251-4780
Coordinates are another tool in the tool box. This is an older lake, so bearings are to the nearest minute and distances to the tenth on boundary maps.?ÿ
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"