That is, a track that would be used competitively for high school-type track and field events.
I have been approached to be involved with the construction of one. Hey, numbers are numbers and measurements are measurements, but this is not my cup of tea. It is also probably something that none of the other surveyors in this general area have dealt with. I'm guessing this would be a bit like certifying dimensions on a competitive swimming pool. Gnat's-ass requirements, right???
Holy Cow, post: 423057, member: 50 wrote: That is, a track that would be used competitively for high school-type track and field events.
I have been approached to be involved with the construction of one. Hey, numbers are numbers and measurements are measurements, but this is not my cup of tea. It is also probably something that none of the other surveyors in this general area have dealt with. I'm guessing this would be a bit like certifying dimensions on a competitive swimming pool. Gnat's-ass requirements, right???
Depends on whether any record competitions will be held on the track. There's design criteria available on line. The last one I was part of was just staking the dirt work for a HS athletic track and football field. I do remember the grade on the track was critical. I was not part of the permanent striping. I think that's where the measurements had to be spot on.
I was thinking of American Flyer or Lionel.
Grandson is a massive train fan. He's only 3 but he is already so over those toddler type toy trains, he wants realism. Wife showed him her 1950s American Flyer S scale set including two steam locomotives and tenders. I tried to warn her, the boy immediately fell in love. He isn't abusive but he's three, motor skills aren't quite fine enough. I had to be the bad guy and put the engine and rolling stock away. One of those engines costs $360 on eBay, just for the engine. And she has literally a huge box of track and four controllers. She wants me to put it together (with the "help" of a toddler) and get it working, so I'm trying to read the book (she has the original book) but then I'm not paying attention to the boy. So I noodled around on Amazon and found a decent Lionel starter set in O gauge for $160, steam engine, tender, two freight cars and caboose, wireless controller. I say order this, if he breaks something it won't be nearly as big a deal and we can add to it.
Did a few in St. Louis in the mid 80s. Tracks, football fields and tennis courts. At the time i worked as a grade hop using a Gurley transit and highway chain. They werent especially difficult. The biggest challenge was the radius points for the track. They had to be tight and grade was critical. We controlled everything from those two points.
I've done one high school track using a total station and one college track long ago using a steel tape. Both artificial surfaces.
There are a lot of drain pipes to stake, even for an artificial surface which needs watering to keep it cool.
Yes, grade is tight. The inner curb is the same elevation all around, as is the outer curb, just lower.
Grade in the direction of running can't vary more than 1:1,000.
The track can be long by a meter, but it can't be short by a centimeter under any circumstances.
I have set buried tagged iron pipes on the radius points.
The final stripes are done by another expert.
paden cash, post: 423065, member: 20 wrote: Depends on whether any record competitions will be held on the track.
If the track is going to host national level competitions then be aware that it isn't just getting the course dimensions right. Top class athletes will pick up any irregularities and if they don't like the track then they will be reluctant to compete there.
Some (many) years ago a stadium which was used to host European Championships was out of action and a nearby stadium was upgraded with a new surface to take on the meeting. As it happens this was Steve Cram's local track (which shows how many years ago this was). He reported that a couple of areas didn't feel right. i surveyed those areas, with 1mm. contours and there were two SLIGHT depressions just where he felt there was an irregularity.
The one I did, after a complex topo in the beginning, was fairly simple from a construction standpoint. A few hiccups but it worked out well.
Holy Cow, post: 423057, member: 50 wrote: That is, a track that would be used competitively for high school-type track and field events.
I have been approached to be involved with the construction of one. Hey, numbers are numbers and measurements are measurements, but this is not my cup of tea. It is also probably something that none of the other surveyors in this general area have dealt with. I'm guessing this would be a bit like certifying dimensions on a competitive swimming pool. Gnat's-ass requirements, right???
I laid out a full NCAA athletic field for St. Louis University. The specs are crazy. I laid out all dirt work with TS and all curbs (yes there are curbs on both the inside and outside of the track with a TS and I graded all the hubs with bar code level. There are underdrains everywhere and the contractor used laser guided machines, no GPS. Oh and curbs stakes every 2 meters, and yes whole "track" features were metric. NCAA sent their own surveyors to certify, measure, as-built completed track and field.
Yes I am working 25 different high school and college running tracks horse track. First thing you need to do is check the geometry on the measure line to make sure you have a 400-meter track. If this is going to have a synthetic surface then grades are very crucial. Often around here the contract plans state that track must be certified by an individual who has done at least three others.
Never did a track, but got a job once aligning the lights for a minor league baseball team. I won't ever waste my time on that again. The wind here could twist the lights out of tolerance during a game, but they would be back in tolerance with no wind. What a mess.
Son's school just finished construction of the new athletic field this past Winter.
I wasn't involved in the project but was around for the construction. Layout was done by a contractor by robot. H & V control set by local surveying firm. Offsite control points are necessary since the nature of the construction.
As mentioned here, grade is critical. Here all of the top soil was removed along with meticulous removal of roots and other organic debris.
Red soil/clay fill was brought
to the site.Grading was all machine control that involved many hours of site prep. Very many hours.Final grading checked and tweaked by robot. Field is natural with irrigation and drainage installed.
As far as the running track, it was synthetic and state of the art. It was installed by a company that does tracks all over the U.S. Their caravan of trucks showed up and got to work. They used the New inside/outer curbs as reference control. A lot of epoxy. This school does everything at top $$. So no expense was spared.
After construction, there was a problem on the athletic field. Either the irrigation sprinkler heads were installed too high or final grade was off by 0.1 -0.2' in one area of the field. Probably a combination of both. But someone is supposed to correct it soon.
Here is a picture taken with a drone after construction during a game.
I did a survey for the local
HS once. Drainage improvements and overlay of artificial track. I set control for contractor. Once again, for the track an out of state contractor specializing in these installations came and did all the work.
I do think that these installers take care of the certification process since it is conducted by a national organization.
Oviously not these guys. http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25623721/dade-co-high-school-to-rebuild-botched-running-track
makerofmaps, post: 423152, member: 9079 wrote: Oviously not these guys. http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25623721/dade-co-high-school-to-rebuild-botched-running-track
Do I smell an architect somewhere near?
$300k for a track? I hope their academic side is well funded.
I was involved in marking start/finish lines for an NCAA sanctioned event at our local university about 40 years ago, whne I was a real neophyte. They had told my supervisor that the radius points were marked, so he figured "Just set up on one RP, sight the other, and measure to each PC of the lanes." What could be easier? The coolest thing was that it was January, and the track is inside an enclosed dome. Cake job!
We arrived and met the track coach. I asked him if he knew where the radius points were, as that was where we going to start. His brow furrowed... He pointed one way and said "Well, that one is under the basketball bleachers, and they're not coming up until the season's over!" He pointed the other way and said "That one's under the hockey rink, and its not coming up until the seasons over!" Things went downhill from there. we found the existing lane lines to not be exactly parallel and concentric, and spent an incredible amount of time calcing things out (pre-CAD) for both metric and imperial races. We were just about ready to start marking when the trck coach walked up and said "You did use the approved NCAA measurement methods, didn't you?" He read the blank stare on my face perfectly and said, "I think I'll call your office." I decided it was probably not prudent to begin the lane marking and returned to the office. After about 30 minutes my boss came out of his office and says "There's apparently some standards for track marking. Why don't you get those and see if they affect anything. After about 10 phone calls I locate someone with the NCAA on the other side of the continent. She said she would drop a copy in the mail. About 10 days later they arrived. Needless to say, they affected everything. We learned, among other things, that you don't use the center of the lane in the curves to measure distance. There is a prescribed distance from the outside edge of each inner lane stripe. Runners are also allowed to leave their lanes and drift to the inside of the track at certain points in long-distance events. A week's worth of calc time later we returned to the site and placed the marks.
The time expended on this was over $5,000. My boss's fixed fee price? $750.00
I learned a lot on that one...
I've done a couple. One was just a cinder track and they were converting from metric to english or the other way around, I don't remember. Synthetic tracks are almost easier because once you lay them out, they paint them and are done. The cinder track they have to paint them and they only last one meet. You have all these different start and finish lines, different tapers for the mid distance runs, lines on the longer distances where they can move in and run single file on the inside etc. This stuff is pretty standard though and easy to draw up in CAD. For the cinder track I drove rebars at the different points just inside the track off the surface, capped them and stamped them so they would know what they are. Then you also have long jump, pits, pole vault, etc that may or may not need layed out.
I'm supposed to be putting together a proposal for laying out a track and pits for a local university. Does anyone have the NCAA specs and approved methods in a PDF? Seeing as how I've never done a job like this, will a 5" robot work to layout everything within specs?
40yrs ago at Texarkana High before a District Meet to certify location of the inside curb and stripes of inside lane and show all the starting lines.
There is alot of money on the table and some serious design that goes into setting one of these up properly.
Most important part of certifying a running track is the measure line calculation. It is an invisible line usually 10" outside of first lane line. It should measure 400m. College tracks are 100m in each turn and 100m in each tangent section. The only hard points needed for layout are the radius points. College tracks have only two radius points. Some high school tracks are broken back curves or three center curves. 25 years ago it was surveyors job to layout all striping just ahead of the painter. Now the painter often has a dedicated layout guy. There should be a set of Engineer drawings with all the information you need.
Off topic but reminds me of a news I read where in China, they rushed out a track and the contractors build a rectangular track because its faster to build.
edit: Found the link http://www.odditycentral.com/funny/chinese-city-builds-worlds-first-rectangular-running-track.html
