What Happened to SMI/Eagle Point?

EP was bought, and basically came out and said they were not going to be a surveying software anymore. Carlson offered a discount to anyone that wanted to switch desktop software. Many of us took them up on that.

Loved SMI software. Very powerful field solutions, plus you could switch tasks to calculator without backing out of menus. Laid out millions of $ of construction projects with it. Stanley Trent would often pickup the phone and answer your question himself.

> Loved SMI software. Very powerful field solution...
I thought it was great, too. But it was based on the HP48 platform and never successfully made the changeover to Windows Mobile.

I think the problems with EP were rooted in "going public" in the late '90s dotcom bubble and making business decisions based on their stock price rather than sound product development.

I loved that software. I laid out a lot of road projects with it. I loved how you didn't have to store a point when staking out an alignment.

On small projects where I don't need to use GPS, my data collector of choice is still a Recon (a lowly 200mhz model) with SMI Version 8 Data Collection loaded. Its really fast as far as field computing for small lot surveys just because its not a true Windows program, its running an HP48 emulator that doesn't use a lot of memory. I can fire up the Recon, open a job and do some inverses before my Windows data collecter gets windows booted up! And I can easily read the monochrome screen in direct sunlight!! People working outside don't need color screens but they sure look good in conference halls! And Stanley had the program setup for efficiency...no extra screens to jump around in, commands executed with one touch, computed information displayed instantly, certain command changed the top 6 programmable keys, etc. It was an extremely well thought out user interface and workflow, designed for a land surveyor. When it came time to re-do SMI to work on the Windows devices, an attempt was made (I believe by Eagle Point) but it just didn't turn out. I tried the newer, better, faster Windows based V8 version (not the same as Version 8) but it needed lots of refining to work with Windows. I think I tried it on a device called an Explorer? That's about when EP made the decision to discontinue development of SMI - and cost of development for the new platform probably was the biggest factor in that decision. Lance Andre who frequents this board knows much more about the SMI/Eagle Point situation and could explain it much better than I did.

It's my understanding that the programmers quit and went to Carlson.

Bruce Carlson allowed basic cogo that was created for the Apple version and then reinvented into the DOS version Surveyor 1 program to go public and be shared with others back in the very late 80s.

I've met most of them and have forgotten most their names, so I won't mention any without remembering all of them. Several of the thinktank separated into other company names.

Several people picked up this now free public basic cogo they had helped with and added their unique menu style, solar package and other features to distribute SMI, TDS and I forget the other names as survey packages that became very popular.

My favorite was SMI and its follow along menu that would take you back and forth thru the functions and still let the HP48GX operate as a basic calculator without jumping out of the program.

This cogo is still alive and the backbone of Carlson Software today. Carlson CES with Autocad R14 engine would shell into the DOS Surveyor1 mode under the command SurvCOGO and enter the command and function settings dialog and usable routines under the command PointCAD.

I doubt the newer versions will shell into DOS. It can also be used with DOSBOX, yet slower and with some inventive commands function very well.

Eagle Point Software bought out SMI and offered those modules until the shelves were empty and evolved with their own CES versions of software and as far as I know offer full service software beyond the surveyor's needs today under the Pennacle Series.

After purchasing the last version of SMI Transfer v7 from them, I usually get a call from someone with the company a time or two a year to see if I need anything.

I use the latest update (1987) of Surveyor1 every day in DOS Prompt window on a Windows XP Professional. It is a simple no nonsense cogo program that does basic cogo in 2D or 3D, center line stationing with grade, horizontal and vertical curves and most everything else. It does not have a spiral curve calculator.

B-)

> It's my understanding that the programmers quit and went to Carlson.

😀

Several possibilities;
1. you have never used Eagle Point Software
2. you have never used Carlson Software
3. there was sarcasm involved

HA. Let me rephrase that statement. The programmers that came to Eagle Point from SMI quit and went to Carlson.

For the life of me I cannot figure out how good stuff like this just "dies"?! SMI has been the best, and I must sheepishly admit we are still running it, and are still productive on it. Like many have said it's not as bulky or quirky as TDS. I have several 48's still running it as well as a 2 Technologies Jett-CE that runs the emulator version of it.

For those that have migrated, was Carlson your choice? I think we are headed in that direction, as I'd really like as small a learning curve as possible.

It's been years since I transferred data from my HP 48. Finally got a serial to USB cable to connect to my Windows 7 desktop but the transfer won't complete from the HP to the computer. Any advice?

Yes "Stanley on the phone" you don't get that kind of service much now days, however Carlson is very good about suppot.
When you used SMI you just knew is was written by a working surveyor. Thank you Stanley Trent, we miss you!

SMI and TDS pretty much began cooperatively and went their separate ways slowly. SMI concentrated on the eastern US while TDS concentrated to the West, but there was no exclusivity. Working with a surveyor gaining my field experience prior to licensing, I learned on SMI version 4 using Kermit for download into Simplicity software running in Generic CAD. Other names that are now long gone. He graduated to 5 or 6 and added Carlson Survey 14 to his office. Once licensed I bought SMI 7 and then got Autodesk Field Survey 2000 from Carlson. Because Carlson was the dealer I never had the support problems by users who bought it through regular AutoCAD dealers. That arrangement did not last long and Autodesk and Carlson loosened the knot. I later upgraded to Carlson Survey 2004 which I still use. When I bought a Sokkia robot I contacted Eagle Point and they added Sokkia drivers to SMI Version 7.1 J which may have been the last HP 48 card version out the door. I then bought another 48 environmental case in the closeout sale, now in use.

A few years after first beingon my own I helped out a different NJ engineering surveying firm for a few years that needed a PA PLS. They had 2 crews with Trimble robots. I had worked with both crew chiefs at a different firm and was a reference for one to get his PA PLS, he later left and besides doing engineering I did some PA surveying work for them. From time to time I went out with the survey principle for surveys that were piling up. For that we used a Topcon 225 with TDS in a 48. We would flip flop during the day on the iman rodman jobs. I could figure out the TDS but was slower than with SMI. If I was out with another man from the office on a new job from scratch I usually used my SMI data collector. Once downloaded the ascii files were indistinguishable and the head draftsman and principle had no problem with the differences in the raw files.

Last comment if you have SMI and want to see what TDS looks like, buttons "shift left" "enter/menu" switches you to the TDS screen method of file management and data collection.

Paul in PA

The SMI Construction V package was, and still is, the best data collector program I have ever used. As others have stated, it was clear that it was written by a surveyor that knew what was needed in the field. Eddie Clanton (who used to own Hayes Instruments) told me one time that he and Stanley Trent used to ride together to seminars trying to sell their products. He said after every seminar, Mr. Trent would work on the code in his software to add something that someone suggested to him so he could show it at the next seminar. Stanley was a good man that cared about his product and his customers. I still have a Construction V package running on a JETT CE that I use on the little bit of construction layout jobs we do. It will run circles around any of the newer packages.

We've got a party chief that will retire in about a month. He's cantankerous, but he's the best, and all he wants to use is SMI version 6 in a HP48. It's always been much cheaper to buy him another 48 off ebay when his breaks, than to listen to him carrying on about learning to use something else.

hlb2, post: 317014, member: 6695 wrote: For the life of me I cannot figure out how good stuff like this just "dies"?! SMI has been the best, and I must sheepishly admit we are still running it, and are still productive on it. Like many have said it's not as bulky or quirky as TDS. I have several 48's still running it as well as a 2 Technologies Jett-CE that runs the emulator version of it.

For those that have migrated, was Carlson your choice? I think we are headed in that direction, as I'd really like as small a learning curve as possible.

When I started my company 8 years ago, I chose Carlson Survey version 2008 as my drafting software. I had been using Eagle Point on AutoCad 14 at the previous employer. I was up and running in a few days, probably less.

I was at the Kentucky Conference last week, and Bruce Carlson was one of the presenters, along with Dean Goodman, and another gentleman whose name I cannot remember at the moment. This was not the first time I have sat in one of his seminars. He listens to your suggestions, takes notes, and wants the program to work for you. The way they present the seminars is pretty neat, n that they swap up areas. When Bruce is not teaching, he is preparing a portion of the seminar based upon questions he was asked, and researching those questions.

I recently upgraded from 2008 to 2016, and the changes are pretty nice. I like it, and will probably always be a Carlson user. I just hope they don't get gobbled up by the Trimble monster.

For a time I was being contacted by a company claiming to be Eagle Point. They developed an overlay for Civil3D that offered embedded how-to guides that would work with your own data. I didn't investigate it any deeper as I wasn't really interested at the time.

I have 2 computers in office (old computer with EP and new computer with c3d 2014, 2015 & 2016) for the life of me I cannot find anything in c3d similar to EP data collection module, manage jobs button, that shows all data points AND all linework and objects associated with said job.

Even tried NEW EP data collection module for c3d, and they remove the button.

Therefore still using EP on old computer with some new stuff from c3d "on the side"

PS very old time user of SMI (learned on it) still have 48 with SMI on desk just for nostalgia sake, every now and then turn it on just to see the setup screen!

I still use my 48 with SMI ACE. Also still wear my SMI t-shirt on occasion.. Stanley Trent was the best...