Notifying Adjoiners

What do the local standards say? Here in Mass, we are allowed trespass after reasonable notice. If I feel the need to enter an adjoiners property, I have a standard letter that I mail out that references the statute.

The crew carries business cards and if an abutter is home, they have been instructed to knock on the door and ask permission before entering.

-V

Re: 47 Barn Hill Road, Petya and Douglas Feeney, owners

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Leavitt:

Eldredge Surveying & Engineering, LLC will be performing a survey of 47 Barn Hill Road, shortly.

It may be necessary for our employees to take measurements on your property 1. Our services will NOT require entering your home. Other than stakes being driven into the ground, your property will not be damaged.

Thank you for your indulgence while this work is being performed.

Should you have any questions, please contact me.

Very truly yours,

Eldredge Surveying
& Engineering, LLC

__________________________
J. Thaddeus Eldredge, L.S.

JTE/jte
Copy: Petya & Douglas Feeney
Y:clientsFeeney, Doug & Petyatresspass letter 2009-08-19.doc

1 Section 120C of Chapter 266 of the MGL reads as follows:
Whenever a land surveyor registered under chapter one hundred and twelve deems it reasonably necessary to enter upon adjoining lands to make surveys of any description included under “Practice of land surveying”, as defined in section eighty-one D of said chapter one hundred and twelve, for any private person, excluding any public authority, public utility or railroad, the land surveyor or his authorized agents or employees may, after reasonable notice, enter upon lands, waters and premises, not including buildings, in the commonwealth, within a reasonable distance from the property line of the land being surveyed, and such entry shall not be deemed a trespass. Nothing in this act shall relieve a land surveyor of liability for damage caused by entry to adjoining property, by himself or his agents or employees.

We send out a postcard to abutters and knock on doors. If we're working in a area that we are not familiar with then we send them to everyone within a practical range.

I consider it a marketing tool, too. We have received calls for new work, but mostly we get calls from people wanting to know what's going on...

Dtp

We've always kept a low profile with the abutters or they will be out there bothering you.

Section breakdown?? Is that a fiddle tune? I think I know that one; it sounds similar to Foggy Mountain Breakdown.

Same here, generally keep a low profile. If I have to cross a fence line, though, I typically knock on the door. If no one answers, I'll just go about the job. Florida's laws do not require any notice be given, but I think it's good practice to knock on the door and say "Hi, I'm surveying your neighbor's property and I'm hoping you won't me taking a measurement along your fence line ... ". Never had anyone say "No".

Developed sections do not need a new section breakdown. Undeveloped or large tracts within a section have had some type of breakdown and established lines. Working in that environment is different than working within developed heavily populated areas. It won't be long after your arrival on site that all landowners will be aware of your presence and what you are doing and for whom. Take time to visit those you expect to need access to there property. Some use mailings, but in rural areas, a followup visit can do wonders and provide some history you would not normally be aware of. Thank God we all are not forced to work in population centers, they are filled with a whole different kind of human.
jud

I am not required to notify owners in order to go on their property.

I was thinking more alng the lines of gathering more information.

For example...A section corner isn't lost if I find that old map tying the lighter wood post or in 19xx my grandfather was given this piece of paper does it mean anything to you?

I was looking at it from a standpoint if I didn't notify everyone and seek their information did I really do all the research I could have?

AMEN!! I hate urban work!

From my last survey. Two of the adjoiners never responsed, and the third was as nice as could be when I met her. Note: Always wear a fluorescent jacket, so your widow's attorney can ask in court: "How could you think he was a prowler? He was wearing a safety vest."

I will be surveying the XXXXXX property at XXXXXXX East Speedway in the next week, and I wanted to give you notice in case you see a strange man wearing a fluorescent vest walking the boundary. I have lived in the same home in Tanque Verde for 33 years, and I assure you I am both responsible and quiet.

I intend to stay close to their fence, but I may have to wander onto your site to avoid the dense cactus or to take an elevation shot, and I hope you won’t mind.

If you want to send me an e-mail I can tell you the day when I will be there.

Sincerely yours,

Bruce Small

In Kentucky,

we have a right of trespass, but within it is the requirement of trying to contact property owners. The lengths gone to in order to contact vary by the surveyor.

What I have been doing of late is to try contacting all adjoiners as well as any other properties I will need to access by a combination of the following:

I call as many people as possible in the evening and let them know what is going to be happening. If they want to show me anything they know about the property (a rare occurrence), I schedule to meet them at their convenience.

I actually had a recent one were I could not find a contact number for the owner, but his property was listed for sale. I contacted the listing agent and got in touch with the owner through the agent.

If I do not reach them by phone, I will knock on doors the day I start the survey.

If there is anything that looks like a potential problem, I hold off flagging anything up until I have made a point of contacting the person who may be surprised by the survey results. Maybe stop by later in the day when they are more likely to be home or get a neighbor to pass on a message to call me.

Being a lake community, we have many many absentee owners. Sometimes, it is difficult to get in touch with everyone.

In Arizona

on a large project where say FF elev's are required, we often prepare a door hanger stating the project and the need to shoot the elevation of thier FF. a knock on the door and if someone answers - fine. if not, leave the door hanger and move on. these have typically been municipal projects.
for a boundary survey, we would normally just attempt to knock on the door and ask permission. here's the Arizona statute:

33-104. Right of person making land survey to enter lands; damages for injury to lands

A. Any person who is registered as a land surveyor under title 32, chapter 1 or who is an employee of the United States government may enter upon lands within this state to perform necessary work relating to land surveys, and may establish permanent monuments and erect the necessary signals and temporary observatories without committing unnecessary injury. The person making a survey under this section shall make every reasonable effort to give oral or written notice of the survey to the owner of the land before entering the land.

B. If the parties interested cannot agree upon the amount of damages caused thereby, either may petition the superior court to assess the damages.

C. The person entering lands for a land survey as provided by this section may tender to the injured party damages therefor, and if the damages finally assessed do not exceed the amount tendered, he shall recover costs. Otherwise the injured party shall recover costs.

D. Notwithstanding this section, the owner or owner's agent may deny entry to normally restricted or hazardous areas.

> I was thinking more alng the lines of gathering more information.
>
> I was looking at it from a standpoint if I didn't notify everyone and seek their information did I really do all the research I could have?

BRAVO!!!!! BRAVO!!!! AUTHOR!!! AUTHOR!!!

You cannot assume best evidence if you don't have ALL evidence that simple inquiry might bring forth.

In Arizona too

I'm one of those that just show up on the job, recon what I need to recon, never disturb anything that I can avoid, and go about my business. Always in full orange and nothing but business on my mind.

MI has pretty much the same right of trespass laws as AZ, and I always proceeded in the similar manner. Written notification, yadda yadda yadda

Periodically, I'll encounter an overly curious person. I politely explain that I am doing a private survey "over there", and need to measure in this point to verify my survey. Then I give them my business card.

I explain that all property has to fit together so that without knowing where their lines are, I can't determine my lines. Sometimes they ask more questions and I extend the most professional "client confidentiality" speech I can conjur up, based on the seeming charecter of the asker.

99.99% of the time they are thankful that somebody is actually getting something done correctly by having it surveyed. They are all happy that I found "a property corner", although I never will say it is theirs.

The best part is I've even gotten considerable additional work in the area from those folks, just by taking the time to talk to them. You send them some legalese looking form to sign and you can kiss those jobs goodbye.

If I took the time and energy to notify every potential property owner that I may be in their area and need to enter their property, I would apply at McDonalds and have a garage sale on my survey equipment. It ain't being lowballing or unprofessional, it's just common sense.

Do utility companies working on their lines have a right to use your property that is outside their easement. They sure do around here. How about postal workers, UPS drivers, even Jehovah Witness handout folks.

Very rarely

We very rarely have any contact with adjoiners or other nearby property owners. The exception is when we need to use their property to access key points in our project. As most of our bigger surveys are in rural areas in PLSSia, we have many so-called adjoiners, especially when doing a section breakdown, as we touch on eight other sections besides the one where our poject is located. I can't remember the last time, on a city job, where we specifically approached a property owner to ask permission to be on their property as we are generally in a street or an alley. It's those rare cases with privacy fences, high chainlink fences and/or killer dogs where we make a point to seek ajoiner assistance. And, many times we will end up a block or more away from the projet while searching for survey monuments. Until we are on-site, we would have no clue who really should be contacted anyway.

I have written a letter explaining what I'm doing and included a form to return with statements to check "I have no knowledge of my property boundary or monuments" and "I have knowledge of the property boundaries, you may contact me at ________". And I leave a place for remarks. I include a preaddressed and stamped envelope. You can purchase No. 9 envelopes (they fit inside a No. 10 without folding). It all depends on the project . . .

> Other than stakes being driven into the ground, your property will not be damaged.
>
The wording in the sentence seems to suggest that driving stakes into the ground equates to damage of the property. You may want to consider reforming the sentence.

JBS

> I consider it a marketing tool, too. We have received calls for new work, but mostly we get calls from people wanting to know what's going on...

:good: :good:

Nothing will promote your reputation better than face-to-face handshaking time on the ground. It also is the best way to gather evidence necessary to determine boundary lines. You can determine directly from the adjoiners what they know about the history of their property, corner monuments, prior surveys, and, most importantly, you come away with an understanding of their expectations.

When you've completed your investigation and your boundary determination fits their expectations, set the points and know they'll be satisfied with the results. If it doesn't, STOP THE WORK, notify your client, and put the contract on hold. Negotiate an addendum for the additional work that will be necessary to resolve the discrepancy.

Once you've made certain your determination, make a return visit to review their understanding to make certain you haven't missed important evidence that led them to their belief. If your opinion still stands, then explain what you've found, and why the boundary is different than their expectation. If you can convince them you're correct (not usually too difficult), then set the monuments. If they remain unconvinced, recommend another surveyor who could review your work and give a second opinion.

Once the differences are resolved, then proceed with the contract and finish the survey in accordance with the original contract (plus the addendum).

>Article 15th. It will be the duty of the surveyor before commencing any survey to see that adjoining proprietors are notified in order to promote the general harmony of the neighborhood.
>Article 16th. Where a difficulty arises concerning the right of location of a particular place, it will be the duty of the surveyor to use all reasonable means in his power to induce the parties to settle their differences in an amicable manner.
>… but, if the dispute is about a particular line and an amicable adjustment cannot take place, it will be the duty of the surveyor to desist from any attempt to survey until the dispute is settled. Any surveyor who shall continue the process of the (above) and, survey and return lands in dispute without notifying the commissioner and run disputed lines without the agreement of the parties interested, shall lay himself liable to the heaviest responsibility.
Regulations by which Surveys will be Governed in the Location of Vacant Lands; Center for American History, at the University of Texas, Austin; 1827

I wish all surveyors still operated under those rules.

JBS

In Arizona too

> If I took the time and energy to notify every potential property owner that I may be in their area and need to enter their property, I would apply at McDonalds and have a garage sale on my survey equipment. It ain't being lowballing or unprofessional, it's just common sense.

From the right of entry that Joe F posted - "The person making a survey under this section shall make every reasonable effort to give oral or written notice of the survey to the owner of the land before entering the land." No attempt does not seem to fit into 'reasonable effort'.

If (and I know this is not reality) every other surveyor complies with that law and you do not in order to save a few bucks in time, then that is the most basic form of lowballing - skirting the rules in order to be under the price of others.

I showed up at my Mother's house one afternoon and the property next door had apparently been surveyed that day. As she was home all day, I asked if anyone had notified her that they were surveying next door. They had not. The surveyor who did the work is a very good surveyor and is very conscientious of following the rules. He apparently just considered the notification rule as unneeded.

Imagine that happening next to a surveyor's relative that has a grudge against you or an attorney who just wants to be a butt head. Or imagine an irate owner calling the cops, then finding out you were supposed to 'attempt' notification - that is a pretty simple complaint to the board that could have been avoided. Around here, violating the laws can result in disciplinary action by the licensing board.

Because you only have a right to be on their property based on a law that also requires you to make a reasonable attempt to contact the property owner, common courtesy should trump common sense an attempt to save a few minutes of time and notification should be attempted.

>
> Do utility companies working on their lines have a right to use your property that is outside their easement. They sure do around here. How about postal workers, UPS drivers, even Jehovah Witness handout folks.

Utility companies have either a written right of access or have developed an easement right for access. Postal workers, UPS, and other delivery drivers have been invited to access the property (if you do not want them there, use a different shipping address). The utility and delivery people are providing a direct service to the property owner. The surveyor is accessing their property in order to provide benefit to another person as well as gain for the surveyor and has not been invited to access the property.

Jehovah Witnesses do not have any right of access that I am aware of and can be told to leave.

In Arizona too

Just came back from a lot survey I'm doing which is going to court...saw neighbor lady come out and get here morning paper, after a few minutes when I was ready to look for a corner in her back yard I went and knocked several times with my KRS 322.470 paper in hand. Rang the bell also, then I heard the dead bolt lock. Oh well, she knows what I'm doing so I went in her yard anyway....she never uttered a word...