Is it ok to talk about Leica?

Great post!

Nate

Yes, it is okay to talk about Leica! When we put together the Javad LS/Trimble R10 shootout I asked for a Leica competitor, but there just wasn't anyone out there.

I don't really think this board is Javad-LS slanted, it just so happens that a lot of the frequent posters own a Javad.

But I would be willing to bet that it's over 100:1 Trimble to any other brand on this forum. People just don't talk about Trimble as it is typically accepted as the best; The Bar for comparison so to speak.

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

"I don't really think this board is Javad-LS slanted, it just so happens that a lot of the frequent posters own a Javad."

Nor do I, it's an "My Lexus is great and I love it vs. My Mercedes is great and I love it" kinda deal.

Of course in my case it would be "My Yugo is better than your Vega".?ÿ ??ÿ

It appears to be the same lackadaisical conversation fueled by the same industry hype. There were a few sage commenters, who took a minute to spell out the realities of GNSS architecture.?ÿ

My take-away from those considered facts cements my beliefs that those firms that build a business model around this brand:

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

Perform at a much higher frequency, realize a 12.7% increase in workflow efficiencies, and maintain a lean operating environment. ?ÿ ??ÿ

Knew I was taking a chance at getting flogged a little, but that's ok I can take it. I just hardly ever see anyone on here talk about Leica, except mostly in a somewhat negative way.?ÿ Nearly all the surveyors I am familiar with in my area of Florida are running Topcon. I guess it has something to do with the long-time North Central Florida presence of Lengemann and their own network service (L-net or something).?ÿ I just happen to have gotten started with Florida Level & Transit (now FLTGeosystems), back in 1971-72, when my partner and I purchased the first Wild T2/Di-10 Distomat (then $12,000 price tag) sold by FLT in Florida.?ÿ Over the years I mostly stuck with FLT and transitioned into Leica brand. Leica may not be the best, but at $33,000 list for a single GS18t/Cs20 system it certainly is not the cheapest. In so far as durability, out of 30 units purchased I have only had to send in 1 GPS unit, a series 500, for a board battery install. Also, it seems Leica is bringing out new firmware every couple months or so, and I have an idea that helps things to run better. And, so far as bad fixes, back prior to the GS18t, there have been less than a couple dozen in the 20 years we have used Leica GPS. Now, with the GS18t's more aggressive personality to lock, perhaps that experience may change...we'll see.

As to my experience with Trimble, I worked as a consultant for one of our clients, an US East coast titanium mining company, to train office staff and equipment operators for GPS machine control technology/equipment. In getting all this set up I worked with the Trimble dealer. My experience with Trimble was very favorable, but it did not tempt me to move away from Leica. I did find, however, that a Trimble would lock in conditions the Leica would not. Full disclosure...I am not an expert when it comes to GNSS equipment/technology, and I know many contributors to the site who have undoubtedly forgotten more than I will ever know or understand. With that disclosure out of the way, and with admittance of not knowing the truth or validity of what I am about to mention, however, while working with the Trimble dealer their installer shared the following: He said he had formerly worked for Leica prior to coming with Trimble, and according to him the difference with Topcon/Trimble/Leica was the algorithms used by each manufacturer. According to him Topcon is designed to expect 1 bad lock out of 100; Trimble 1 out of 1,000; and, Leica 1 out of 10,000. I swear I am not making that up. Whether true or not I honestly do not know, but, my experience with the 3 brands has certainly borne that out.

For Florida, with the DOT network being all Leica, both software and equipment, I would believe Leica equipment might possibly have the edge on other brands. Everyone can be their own judge of that. Whatever kind of equipment you want or need or favor, knock yourself out. I certainly could care less, but I have been very...let that be, "Extremely" impressed and pleased with Leica.

Posted by: R.J. Schneider

It appears to be the same lackadaisical conversation fueled by the same industry hype. There were a few sage commenters, who took a minute to spell out the realities of GNSS architecture.?ÿ

My take-away from those considered facts cements my beliefs that those firms that build a business model around this brand:

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

Attachment : Folgers.jpg

?ÿ

?ÿ

Perform at a much higher frequency, realize a 12.7% increase in workflow efficiencies, and maintain a lean operating environment. ?ÿ ??ÿ

://?

Posted by: StLSurveyor

Yes, it is okay to talk about Leica! When we put together the Javad LS/Trimble R10 shootout I asked for a Leica competitor, but there just wasn't anyone out there.

I don't really think this board is Javad-LS slanted, it just so happens that a lot of the frequent posters own a Javad.

But I would be willing to bet that it's over 100:1 Trimble to any other brand on this forum. People just don't talk about Trimble as it is typically accepted as the best; The Bar for comparison so to speak.

?ÿ

I can accept Leica GS18t is second or third best to Trimble or Javad. Or, is it Javad or Trimble??ÿ Heck, after Topcan maybe it's 4th best even. Who knows...not to doubt what you are saying re Trimble. No problems at all. But, regardless how many brand receivers are better than the GS18t you can still get by with it if that's all you got.

Have a nice day,

ubenhavin

***Maybe it's time for a friendly Leica/Java shootout!***

I can't do it.

But, it's...... Good!

N

My company uses all Leica equipment, also purchased through FLT. I'm curious to see if we'll upgrade to the GS18s in the future as most of our units G14s/G15s and all of them are pretty robust with very few issues. Therefore, no need to be replaced yet. Thanks for the objective review. We're in Southwest FL and I agree that Trimble/Topcon are most common with our competitors in the area and even at some of our other offices.?ÿ

South Florida guy here as well, got a GS-16 from John over at FLT, could not be happier..

?ÿ

I think you see a lot of Javad discussion here, because you have a lot of participation from solo surveyors or guys with smaller shops where the advantages of a "mix and match" approach to acquiring what?ÿthey see at the best equipment for each task outweighs the advantage of having everything on one platform across multiple crews and offices.

Here in the Mid Atlantic you see a good bit of Leica in the bigger firms because they have a pretty robust RTN (actually may be moving a CORS station from a building next door to my roof when the company next door sells their building) and we have excellent local sales & support.

In the past we have used Nikons and Topcons. I have always found the Topcon GPS to be robust and it works very well for us.

I have said before that we may personally just had a bad run with instruments, but after some problems with Topcon Magnet, Topcon robots and our traditional Topcon instruments we decided to try something else. I checked the new Topcon robots, the Trimble and the Leica gear about 3 years ago. I have to say it was a tough choice between the Trimble and the Leica instruments.

I finally decided on purchasing a Leica MS-60 and that gun has been incredible. We also have since purchased (2) TS-16 robots from Leica and overall I am very happy I made the switch. The upfront costs were more but the confidence levels went up as well. Are there some minor issues here and there, of course but they pale in comparison to the Topcon issues I was having. Also they just seem to run tighter traverses, backsights etc. Having confidence in your equipment goes a long way!

I don't know what will happen as these instruments get older and need servicing and repairs but I will see when we get there.?ÿ

Gregg

So I dont have a ton of time with a GS18T but I was able to check on out recently and I have to say its an awesome receiver. The tilt on that thing is amazing and if I was starting my own survey company and I had the cash to spend, that would probably be the receiver I'd pick up. Not a huge fan of the data collection software personally - probably mostly due to my lack of use - but the receiver and tilt worked amazingly. Id easily say its one of the best on the market now.

My primary reason for staying with Leica is having confidence in the measurements. Over the years I have worked with several other brands, enough to be concerned about turning my people loose and trusting the results. Although we have a policy to require redundancy (actually it's required by law/rule in Florida), with other brands I have even experienced redundant bad shots. I suppose I could learn to create processes to eliminate error through enough redundancy, but I would just as soon not have the worry to deal with. Cost has not been my primary consideration, if it was I would have ditched Leica many years ago. Also, Leica is probably not the sexiest.

As I understand it, with 99.0 percent confidence you can expect 1 bad shot in 100 shots; with 99.9 percent, expect 1 bad shot in 1000 shots; and, with 99.99, expect 1 bad shot in 10,000 shots. Leica advertises 99.99, and our results over 20 years has borne out those lofty claims. I prefer to have 10 times more confidence in measurements. I/we sell data. What is the value of having maximum confidence in that data?

I can say I love my R10. That being said my?ÿlast Leica experience was the 500 series. The one thing that helped me over the years is a desktop emulator. I had one for the Leica, and now have one for Trimble Access. It really helps when I am giving the field tech support over the phone when murphy shows up and messes with all the coms settings. We?ÿcan push buttons together over the phone.?ÿI am sure I would probably like Javad. I have rented a Topcon unit recently and it worked pretty good.

It really helps when I am giving the field tech support over the phone....

One of the main reasons I'm on Team Green is that those calls go straight from my field staff to the local sales & support guy.

And one of the main reasons I buy from the local sales and support guy instead of shopping around nationwide for a cheaper deal is so he recognizes our cell phone numbers ??ÿ

?ÿ

Posted by: James Fleming

It really helps when I am giving the field tech support over the phone....

One of the main reasons I'm on Team Green is that those calls go straight from my field staff to the local sales & support guy.

And one of the main reasons I buy from the local sales and support guy instead of shopping around nationwide for a cheaper deal is so he recognizes our cell phone numbers ??ÿ

?ÿ

Same here.?ÿ I invited my Leica rep to our office Christmas party last year.?ÿ I saw one of my newer PC's?ÿtalking with him.?ÿ He was telling him not to hesitate calling him with questions.?ÿ He told him "Cam spends a lot of money with us and part of what he's spending it on is my cell number for you to use".?ÿ I jumped in and explained that's the circle of life -?ÿI buy my spendy stuff from him, he makes sure all my guys are rock stars with it, and I keep coming back when it's time for the next shiny toy.?ÿ

I do enjoy solving?ÿa problem every once in a while though.?ÿ Keeps my game up for when I get to go out and use the gear.?ÿ Can't stand not being able to make a piece of tech do what I want.

I agree with you, Cameron.?ÿ The area Leica rep is VERY responsive and knowledgeable.

Posted by: Ethan

South Florida guy here as well, got a GS-16 from John over at FLT, could not be happier..

?ÿ

Good group of people there at FLT. They recently worked on my 1201 (tilt sensor replacement).?ÿ I'd highly recommend their services.?ÿ