A few basic RTK questions

I'm not familiar with Carlson files like your RW5 file, but OPUS processes static and rapid static data. The current version should be able to accept a RW5 file directly. Or, it should be converted to Rinex format for upload. That facility would be part of the Carlson software package. I don't believe that OPUS processes RTK data yet though it is in the offing.

RTCM is a radio format that you might see from an RTK base station broadcasting to the rover receiver.

Just guessing here, but it looks like the base station was changed, or a second known base was checked into. If changed, then of course the northing, easting, height and point number as well as height of antenna would change.

Do you have a plot of these points? You can check where the points are using the point numbers (the PN after the SP in the file)

Hope it helps.

I am not familiar with rw5 either. But that’s the data collector file not the raw data. So you can have raw data for the vector that goes from base to rover that data does not go to OPUS at this time. If you wanted to get data into OPUS that was rtk data you would need to go to opus projects and then you would have to use a gvx format so it could read the rtk vector data.  As far as raw data to go directly into opus. Rinex and that alone only for the base or rover if it were logging raw data . The next thing is that every receiver has multiple points to measure a height to. ARP. NGS antenna reference point. You can see this on NGS website under antenna models. All gps receivers collect data at the APC Antenna Phase Center. Since we cannot fiscally measure to this or even see this manufacturers give us a point to measure to in order for us or the software to reduce to the point on the ground. Let’s take the 6.562 which is 2m. Most rover rods and base fixed height rods are mostly standard historically this height. Now it makes it easy to type that in it’s always known so can aid in blunders in height measurements which has also been historically the biggest issues with gps. So that 6.562 hit the market. That could screw into directly to the ARP or some other point in which the software in collector can then add whatever offset and the antenna calibration file which reduces the epochs or corrections of the data from APC down to the ground. As stated above RTCM is basically an messaging language for the base to broadcast corrections in that language to the rover. I barely speak English call it Mississippi ease lol. But if you started talking to me in French I could hear you but not understand. So some examples of languages are RTCM. CMR CMRx RTCM3.0 CMR+. When I look at the rw5 only on my phone I can’t see any vector components all I am seeing is more like a points file. Point number northing easting elevation code and height of rod or base. So this is not really a file to process. It’s the results of the RTK measurement from in the field. I am not seeing any RMS values that might also indicate a poor precision or good precision at time of observation. I can I imagine that Carlson actually has a different file type to brain the vector data for a network adjustment or qa/qc or maybe they don’t have that vector  data checked at this time. If it were a rw5 with total station data you would see the angles hz by slope distance height rod instrument etc.  the company I am with used Carlson robot for a while and switched over to Trimble. They still processed most all their conventional data in Carlson survey on office side so they can simply export the rw5 format from the Trimble data collector conventional. When they tried this when using gps they simply got what you have but with some rms values and vector components. I hope some of this helps. And maybe someone that is more familiar with Carlson field gps and rw5 format can help you better. 

Posted by: @olemanriver

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I am not familiar with rw5 either.

A .rw5 file is the old TDS raw file and can be edited in Notepad.

Could you post the whole file? Maybe I could try and pull it into starnet.

The example rw5 file is recording resultant coordinates only. No vectors, so nothing useful to Starnet. 

How is it that you come to be running SurvCE on a CS20?

Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

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The example rw5 file is recording resultant coordinates only. No vectors, so nothing useful to Starnet. 

How is it that you come to be running SurvCE on a CS20?

Hey there; long time no chat. "I" am not running anything on anything lol. The surveyor I hired to do the survey had Leica equipment. I looked at the screen briefly on his data collector (which I thought was also Leica equipment), but it did not look like SurvCE.

I'd ask him what it is and if I can get the raw data file so I could upload it to OPUS, but he (like almost every surveyor in North America it seems) is so busy, he barely ever has time to even pick up the phone or answer a text. He's coming back (someday) to set the rebar on the subdivision, so my plan is to put a Denver Boot on his car when he arrives and pick his brain on all these questions lol.

Posted by: @rfc

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I'd ask him what it is and if I can get the raw data file so I could upload it to OPUS .....

OK. If he has a CS20 he is probably running Captivate, Leica's current data collection software. That software will "export" data to several different flavors (Microsurvey, Carlson, TDS) of RW5, as well as Autodesk FBK and simple comma delimited ascii. These seem to all transfer only coordinates.  There is a separate function - "Transfer job" - that will yield a subdirectory of files that can be read by Leica's Infinity office software and also by StarNet. There may be others, IDK. These will contain the actual vector measurements as resolved by the RTK, which can then be adjusted. 

If you are looking for the actual raw collected satellite data to send to OPUS you are looking for files that end in .m00. These might be found inside that transfered data, or it may be on an SD card inside the GS18 head. Or it may not have been stored at all. Depends on settings.   OPUS will accept the .m00's, you don't have to convert to RINEX.   

So.... to reiterate ....in Lieca speak...... "Export data" means to create coordinate output in some format which Lieca doesn't support. "Transfer job" is what you want if you want actual measurements. And for "raw data" you should look for .m00 files.       

Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

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Posted by: @rfc

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I'd ask him what it is and if I can get the raw data file so I could upload it to OPUS .....

 There is a separate function - "Transfer job" - that will yield a subdirectory of files that can be read by Leica's Infinity office software and also by StarNet. There may be others, IDK. These will contain the actual vector measurements as resolved by the RTK, which can then be adjusted.      

So, the question I asked in Strictly Surveying (Comparing Two Surveys), was: is there any benefit to getting the GPS survey data to OPUS (thinking that OPUS might, itself "adjust" the coordinates). It doesn't sound like that's what OPUS does. But if I can get data into Starnet there might be some educational advantage to that. So I'll rephrase the question(s):

What's the advantage of getting the survey sent to OPUS?, and is it worth getting data I can put into Starnet?

Posted by: @rfc

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What's the advantage of getting the survey sent to OPUS?, and is it worth getting data I can put into Starnet?

OPUS returns a true position for the point that has been statically occupied. Typically for your base station position. You can then shift your vectors as needed so that their source equals this true position, and the rover position is thereby also true. This facilitates wedding data from different surveys together, such as when you incorporate GIS data into your mapping. Or when you reuse data from an old job. 

As far as getting data into StarNet ..... There are a lot of advantages, IMO. Not all of them are strictly in the adjustment arena. Its a very simple format to edit busted point numbering, rod heights, or descriptor errors, for example. It's a super simple way to shift the vectors onto that "true" OPUS position. It's a great way to amalgamate GNSS data with total station data. It's a great way to catch and fix or eliminate busted data generally. 

Learning to use these things will be painful and slow. But after a time running jobs through an "adjustment" will go very quick and you may wonder how you got along without it.       

OPUS does not adjust a point position, but it does process the position with reference to the CORS network for a NAD83(2011) position. If you want to submit a set of survey points, then OPUS Projects will run baselines and enable you to do a network adjustment.  But there is a kinda steep learning curve and it is not a program for RTK data (yet)

OPUS6, when it comes out, will handle more types of data.  You would be better off IMO to learn Starnet

Posted by: @mountainhermit

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it is not a program for RTK data (yet)

OP currently accepts GVX files containing RTK, RTN and/or PP vector data.  Is it ready for prime time? Maybe.

I tried to run a large project through it last year and ran into so many problems that I had to abandon OP and process the data myself.  I haven't checked it out since, so don't know if the situation has changed.

Posted by: @mountainhermit

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OPUS does not adjust a point position, but it does process the position with reference to the CORS network for a NAD83(2011) position. If you want to submit a set of survey points, then OPUS Projects will run baselines and enable you to do a network adjustment.  But there is a kinda steep learning curve and it is not a program for RTK data (yet)

OPUS6, when it comes out, will handle more types of data.  You would be better off IMO to learn Starnet

I've got a lot of seat time on Starnet--hundreds of hours over the last 10 years, although a lot of it was some time ago...I'd need to brush up. My intent was to (if I can get the surveyor to "Transfer Job" ) so that I could start learning GNSS surveying, and also bring the data into my quite extensive Starnet control network file.

If nothing else, it'd be great to just have a super duper accurate location of where the surveyor placed his base, as that's the same exact point that is my primary control point (embedded in ledge), and from which I've done my several dozen celestial observations (for basis of bearings).

Note that you will need the "Pro" version of StarNet to play with GNSS vectors. 

So does Captive allow for GVX export?

If so that's definately the best way to carry the data

Learning StartNet and how to process GVX data would be well worthwhile for any aspiring young surveyor

Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

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Note that you will need the "Pro" version of StarNet to play with GNSS vectors. 

Thanks for that note. That puts the Kabosh on my plan. Until or unless I get some old used GNSS equipment, I'll have to put that off.

“What does the "GPS Reference station..." line. refer to?”
if the surveyor tied into offsite control, like section corners this would be the reference line referred to. If he/she was working in RTK reference network, this may reference the nearest CORS type GPS station……essentially a GPS base station operated by others that pay a subscription to access.

“What does "Replaced point ID RTCM-Ref 1273 mean"?”

RTCM points are unique to Leica. They are a pseudo base that are created when the GPS is initialized and connects to a base station or network. It is replaced once the GPS has a positional fix. This data is of no use to you.

“2. Regarding the height of the antennas: Surveyor reports antenna at the base is a GS18, and the height is 5.962'. This does not match either of the references to antenna heights below (.620 on the line before the base point description, 6.562' on the line after the "GPS Reference Station" line. Any idea how to interpret these numbers? “

5.962 would be the surveyor’s measure up from ground to a reference point on the base station, usually a black disk on top of the tripod. The 0.62 is the vertical offset (stored inside the data collector) from that measurement to the GPS dome, resulting in a final height of 6.582….. which differs from the data file by 0.02….. not sure why, but a minimal discrepancy. 

“3. Is this the file that could be uploaded to OPUS? I'm not sure I understand exactly what OPUS can do without a lot more information than what's in this file.”

Opus processes rinex files which are raw positional data from each satellite. Look at these files as if they were the angles and distances from your total station. 
the RW5 file is the results or final positions of the observations. Two different things, that cannot be translated back and forth,……. Confusing enough, RW5 files from a total station can be angles and distances. 

you can just treat the raw file as a point list in this case, but be aware that this is raw field data that may have been rotated or shifted in the office by your surveyor.

@rfc 

FYI: Leica Captivate needs to be set up in advance to record Static data, so it is extremely unlikely that your surveyor has .m00 files stored for your project. Unless it is needed, it just bloats the job file with unnessesary data.

Has anyone had the chance to look at the new Carlson Viking ?

Posted by: @jimcox

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So does Captive allow for GVX export?

Uncertain on Captivate (I am on Thanksgiving holiday 1000 miles from my field equipment), but the office companion software Leica Infinity certainly does.

SHG