Looking for advice on Civil Eng vs Surveying degrees

I'd stick with the CE degree, and take as many surveying courses as you can, the ones required by the state you intend to eventually get your land surveying license in.

As said, you don't necessarily need a surveying degree, in many state.?ÿ And know that in general, civil engineering has a higher pay ceiling than surveying.

There's nothing wrong with being a PE and PLS; several on this board have dual licenses. I know several people who have both; I think all, only survey. It keeps the door open, though, when times are lean.

You can achieve both with an Engineering Degree; a lot easier than with just a Degree in surveying.

Good luck, in what ever you decide!

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If I understand it correctly Washington is pretty lax about accepting academic experience, a symptom of not having a bachelor level survey program in the State.

In the general case, requirements are available online.

While rare I have met PE's that go to field, I have even met a couple of LS's that go to field but at the professional level it is rare in both disciplines so do not romanticize the field element of surveying too much.

I would consider a Survey track with exposure to Industrial Engineering and Construction Management to be a great way to start out, especially if you are open to travel.

LOL at 26 and "old".

Switch to that ABET-accredited survey program today and never look back.?ÿ

I think you should contact Knud Hermansen https://umaine.edu/svt/knud-hermansen/

The University of Maine

Surveying Engineering Technology
5711 Boardman Hall, rm 119
Orono, ME 04469-5711

207.581.2340

Knud is a/an:

Professional engineer
Professional land surveyor
Attorney at law
Member of the:
American Society of Engineering Educators
Reserve Officers Association
American Society of Civil Engineers
National Society of Professional Engineers
National Society of Professional Surveyors (Fellow)
Maine State Bar Association
Maine Society of Land Surveyors

He taught at Penn State University for four years before teaching at the University of Maine.

Knud currently teaches three to four courses a semester ƒ?? from basic surveying to construction law. He teaches in the Surveying Engineering Technology program and the Construction Engineering Technology program.

"While rare I have met PE's that go to field, I have even met a couple of LS's that go to field but at the professional level it is rare in both disciplines so do not romanticize the field element of surveying too much."

This is one of the things wrong with our profession.?ÿ I'm not saying that we should be out all the time on all jobs, but we should be in the field often.

I wouldn't last without being able to go in the field a lot.

Life is too short to have a job you dont like. The top end money for a CE is usually above a PLS, but not enough to justify doing something you consider depressing.

As a multi-state PLS with about 40 years in I do fine money wise. I spend almost half my time in the field. Most of it is in the States you list.

The trend now is higher pay for Surveyors. The PNW market is on fire and now is a great time to dive in. I got my first license a few weeks short of my 40th birthday. Dont let that bother you a bit.

Good luck, Tom

The physical body wears out before the brain cells, as a general rule. ?ÿFocus on learning what will provide you the best options when your body starts having problems.

A currently hot technical career is power transmission line worker. ?ÿGreat pay but very hard on the body.

Welders make great money until their eyes or knees or nerves or lungs are shot. ?ÿAt 40 and 50 they are trying to find new careers.

BTW, I am both a PE and an LS. ?ÿGet that engineering degree now if you can handle the classwork. ?ÿAdd in whatever classes are available that would be useful to a surveyor. ?ÿWork weekends with a surveyor who works weekends.

I can really relate to your situation as I found myself in the same conundrum, though at 26 you hardly qualify as 'old'. I went back for my degree in my mid thirties. Better late than never. Don't over romanticize the notion of field work. In the same breath I don't think I would have been drawn to the profession without that prospect. Having a family and being gone most of the time doesn't always equate into marital bliss and eight hours a day trapped in a cubicle staring into a computer monitor day in day out?ÿis my notion of?ÿthe?ÿslowest and most agonizing suicide conceivable. Been there, done that. You're in a unique position with an opportunity to write your own ticket if you play your hand correctly. I'd encourage you to pursue the civil engineering degree and?ÿget it out of the way. Once completed it would be an easy stretch for you to pursue the geomatics angle.?ÿ Once you find yourself with the responsibilities that come in the later stages of life it will be much more difficult to make that happen. You parlay those two together and find the right niche, man o' man, you can write your own ticket. Dream big and fight like hell to get there. Life is no rehearsal. Good luck.

I started college thinking I wanted to be an electrical engineer (my father was a EE Phd). Didn't like it. Went through various other majors including law and geology, didn't really like any of them. Part of the problem was lack of motivation, I never had to pay to go to college (scholarships due to my father being a professor), so it didn't matter to me if I was dragging it out for years. I was always an outdoor type, boy scouts as a youngster and then a lot of camping and hiking as I got older.?ÿ

While I was working as a paralegal at a law firm I took an engineering technician test with the federal government and got a job as a survey tech. Loved it. So I went back for Civil Engineering, mainly because my father's CE colleagues said that survey itself was a dead end, would never make much money, etc. Went to Mexico for three semesters, got married, then back to the US, taking full time classes in CE and working summers on a survey crew for the USACE. My senior year I transferred to Purdue and took all survey courses. Graduated with a BSCE, majored in geodesy and minor in transportation.?ÿ

Once I got out (1986) I got a job at one of the first GPS survey companies, and have been doing GPS and other types of high end surveying (deformation, etc) ever since. I think the CE classes really helped me but I probably would have been better off taking more survey, but I didn't know about the survey majors at some colleges until I was almost done. The college I took most of my CE courses at (Pitt) had only a single survey class and it was a joke, taught by some old over the hill CE prof that they needed to get rid of but couldn't (tenured).?ÿ At least in Mexico I was able to take Survey I and II, much better than the class offered at Pitt.

So, I say all of the above to say this...if you think you like surveying, go for it. Take as many classes as you can. On the other hand, I know a few other people like me who got CE degrees and have been successful as surveyors (not cadastral, but engineering surveys). So if you decide to remain in Civil, take as many survey courses as you can. Get a summer job on a survey crew.?ÿ

The real shame in the CE field right now, in my opinion, is the lack of survey knowledge by Civil Engineers. Many graduate from a 4 year CE program without taking a single survey course. I believe it should be REQUIRED of all CE students, not to make them surveyors but to give them at least enough knowledge to understand surveying so that they can deal with survey data, maps, etc.?ÿ

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I would highly suggest finishing up the Civil Engineering degree, and staying an extra year or two to get the surveying degree as well. Having both will make you much more marketable, and open many more doors for you. My first surveying job was with a small engineering/surveying firm where two of the three owners were dual licensed. I learned a lot from them, and with their backgrounds, they knew what they needed in the field for design.

Their engineering coursework was more towards site design, drainage, sewers, etc. as opposed to your current track. The sky is the limit.

I agree, at 26, you are young enough to do whatever you want. I got my first LS license at 26. I am currently licensed in 5 states, and have an AAS in civil/construction engineering technology. I have a diploma in surveying and mapping. I am currently enrolled in the BAS program at Great Basin to finish up my 4 year degree.

Never turn down an opportunity to further your education and don't stop learning, ever.

Once you close the door, it will be more difficult to enter again.

The information and degree you earn will advance you in your workplace and even if you never use or rely upon the titles that come with your degree, that information will assist you in whatever direction you go in life.

0.02

If the choice was the Engineering degree or drop out I could agree with finishing the CE program. Adding 2 years of student debt for a degree that you describe as 'depressing' sounds like a bad idea.

Do what you love. Leverage it into a good life..

My .02, Tom

You will have more options with an engineering degree. You can do quite a lot of surveying with an engineering degree (plus what you can pick up later). You can't do much engineering with a survey degree. So unless you are really certain of your future path I'd stick with engineering, and squeeze as much surveying into it as you can.?ÿ ?ÿ

It depends on where you currently are. Consider PA, if you have a BS CE and only 10 survey credits, you can sit for the survey exams. Some other states require just a few more survey credits if you are a CE, so getting a CE degree does not completely knock you out of the survey field. One option if you were attending Penn Sate University Wilkes-Barre campus survey program you could get an full blown surveying degree, 45 survey credits, and then go another year and get a BS CE. That puts you at both ends of the survey credit spectrum. A few states like NJ require a Surveying degree with 45 surveying credits.

I suggest continuing on a CE path, unless it gets to be too much and accumulate at least 24 credits. Quite a few states only require an associates degree with a range of 24-30 survey credits.

Paul in PA, PE, PLS

BS CE from way back when and additional 42 surveying credits along the way.

Look at regs for all states you believe that you MAY want to work in and make sure your education meets the requirements of the most rigorous state. You'll most likely want your degree (engineering or surveying or geomatics) from an ABET accredited program. I suspect that even the most rigorous?ÿ states will accept an civil degree with a certain # of core survey classes (like Paul in PA noted) - some states are fairly specific about what those classes need to cover.

Life is not likely to work out exactly as you planned it - get the education that will give you the most options - an extra year or two now may seem daunting but it's relatively minor compared to 30+ years of a career.?ÿ

Good luck

P.S. Regarding small shops - As technology advances and the cost of hardware, software, and insurance (especially software) goes up and it takes a wider variety of skills to effectively operate that hardware and software - it becomes less feasible to open a competent small shop. There may be niches that you can focus on and still do this but I suspect that in the course of your career, you'll see fewer and fewer small survey businesses.?ÿ

Thanks everyone. Lots of great advice so far.

First, at 26 yo I don't think I'm old, I just said I was "older," haha. YOU try hanging around 18 year olds all day.....ok, it's not that bad.

In terms of doing both, I could get the Civ Eng degree now and get the Surveying degree later, but I can't take many surveying credits now. This is the start of my third semester, so I basically have three years to go. The engineering curriculum is pretty full from the beginning. It looks like I have 18 elective credits open in the coming years, but if any surveying class conflicts with a class I need for the Civil degree then it gets bumped. Realistically, I'm looking at 9-12 surveying credits if I stay on the Civil track, maybe. Then, if I want to pursue the option of Surveying, it is another year or two, which isn't necessarily bad.

I also don't think I am romanticizing the field work too much. I grew up on a farm, watched my Dad have multiple back/knee/shoulder surgeries, I've been a laborer my whole life, I have some aches and pains at 26 as I've suffered tendinitis and frostbite among other inequities. Bottom line is I would rather suffer road rash and sunburn than florescent lighting and a cubicle space. Not that I can't do what I have to do, but you get the idea. In talking to surveyors, engineers, and reading the comments here, I am under the impression surveying has a little more variety day to day, on average, than engineering.?ÿ

One of the driving forces behind going to school was meeting some environmental engineers who collected soil samples and did some simple water tests and made a decent salary. They were about 50-75% travel/field, 25% office. I didn't hate where I was, but where they were looked better. Now that I'm in the program I'm exposed to engineering and I've done some job shadowing and mini-internships. It seems like the engineering jobs that interested me are more the exception than the rule. Surveying looks much more like what I envisioned, at least for the time you are doing field work. I understand that as you move up you generally get more desk time.

Dropping out isn't really an option, I'm just trying to fine tune things a little. I'm sure I will land on my feet.

Thanks for the advice again, it has been helpful.

I probably don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I'd share what I'm doing as I'm in a similar boat to you.

I'm in college right now with about 2 years left of a bachelors in Geomatics and I'm about to turn 21.?ÿ My "plan" is to get my bachelors in surveying then work on a degree in Electrical Engineering part time.?ÿ While I'm working my way through my surveying degree I am also taking all the math classes needed and will be taking Physics next year.?ÿ By the time I finish with the surveying degree I will have completed all the classes that are shared by all the engineering degrees at my university (physics, math, chemistry).?ÿ So the only classes I will need to take for my second degree will be classes specific to that field.?ÿ I may or may not choose to actually do Electrical Engineering, I might instead do civil or mechanical; however, my state (Alaska) is graduating too many people in civil and mechanical to actually get jobs in those fields in state.?ÿ?ÿ

While any of the engineerings aren't what I want to do right now, I know that in the future it will be nice to have the option to not have to work in the field or rely on getting high enough up in a company to not have to do field work frequently.?ÿ?ÿ

Originally I had just planned on doing a Associates degree in Surveying then doing engineering.?ÿ But, the state board recently changed the licensure requirements to require a four year degree and a specified set of classes, and the amount of specified classes are just 2 short of actually having the degree in surveying.

This might seem weird coming from a 20 year old but, the money doesn't matter as much as the quality of life you want to have.?ÿ Don't get me wrong, money is definitely nice.?ÿ But if you are completely miserable doing something, then it isn't worth doing.?ÿ?ÿ

I'm doing surveying because I genuinely enjoy the work, and I think that will contribute to the quality of life I want to have for the next decade or two.?ÿ But I'm also doing engineering because it does not hurt to have options later down the road for when life happens.?ÿ And I actually enjoy the math.

Life is what you make it, only you will know what is best for you.?ÿ?ÿ

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I would suggest you become a Civil Engineer, and then look for work as an engineer in the field, building roads and bridges.

With experience, you can work your way to a Project Engineer, in charge of road/ bridge construction projects.

Outside a lot, solving problems, and working out of job shacks and your truck.