I'll give you a pair of size 13 hob nail boots for that kiester kicking....and a cellphone for instagraming it.?ÿ ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????ÿ
@jph?ÿ When I graduated from school 2017 and was job hunting I ended up doing an interview in Denver.?ÿ I had lived in Denver from 2008 to 2014 and it was expensive to live there even back in 2014.?ÿ Anyway, I had a couple years of rodman experience to go with being a degree holder so I was hoping for $20/hour.?ÿ I chatted with the guy for a bit and he commented how frustrating it was about to become finding degree holders since the legislature was about to pass a law requiring future licensees be degree holders and in light of Metro closing down its survey program.?ÿ I was thinking "Great!?ÿ Maybe this will work out in my favor...".?ÿ He then went on to describe the position and said they'd start me at $12/hour.?ÿ I couldn't tell if he was screwing with me or what, but I knew immediately it would be impossible to live there on that much money.?ÿ Hell, it was less money than I was making when I lived there 3 years earlier!?ÿ When I realized the guy was serious I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
I was in that last registered full time program at Metro state.?ÿ The pay will only increase if people refuse to be taken advantage of.
I was in that last registered full time program at Metro state.?ÿ The pay will only increase if people refuse to be taken advantage of.
Nice!
I was enrolled at Metro and taking general requirements when I got an e-mail one day saying the survey program was being suspended for 2 years to be re-accredited and to have the curriculum updated.?ÿ I thought OK that's irritating...?ÿ So I spent the next 2 years taking the rest of the general requirements and a couple low level CE classes.?ÿ After 2 years I got another e-mail from the school saying "Well, we changed our mind and we're just going to get rid of the program entirely.?ÿ If you had started taking the survey classes then you would have been allowed to finish out the program but since you haven't... good luck!".?ÿ Between how the school treated me and the interview with the low-baller I don't feel too sorry about the survey situation in Colorado.?ÿ With the the state being such a desirable place to live though I'm sure there's no shortage of help.
There was a time when Colorado, in general, was a great place to live.?ÿ Not nearly so much anymore.?ÿ?ÿ
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Real...and I mean REAL health insurance is something that you get used to. The salary is always something that someone else can add a few dollars to and the guy is gone.
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4 weeks of vacation, flexible work from home opportunities, a work vehicle, outstanding benefits...ok the take home is low, but that PLS is locked in. Getting disentangled is hard at that point, and the benefits are hard to compare apples to apples.
@stlsurveyor I completely agree with your response and apologies if my words implied I believe that a license is REQUIRED to manage staff and so on.?ÿ I only intended to point out that there are so many variables, it is tough to answer the original question.
@jon-payne A couple or three years ago there was a firm down Highway 68 from you that was looking for a PLS at $33,000 per year.
@tommy-young Geez that's little under 16 dollars an hour. Which means they billed the PLS out at maybe 45 bucks an hour.?ÿ
Piss poor. I hope no one was even dumb enough to even respond to that solicitation.?ÿ
N10,000, E7,000, Z100.00
PLS - IL, MO, AR, KS, MN, KY
@mark-mayer I doubt it. I'm not up on the surveying scene in that town, so I don't know anything about the company or who works there.
As one of the ??oath of poverty solo guys?, I can report good success with raising my rates this year. ?ÿLost a few and some have come back. ?ÿWe all know the last recession held Survey prices back and it??s nice to move forward a bit. ?ÿThe Triangle area of NC is really booming and we get an influx of Survey types moving here for work. ?ÿPretty sure the bigger firms are pretty safely into 6 figures for the main mangers now.
My least fond memories of running crews for others is trying to make work, when there was none. Now I nap or hit balls(been a while). ?ÿ
Speaking occasionally with a few colleagues that have their own larger business or manage someone else??s - the quality of applicants and employees is not great. ?ÿEven with nice salary??s, company trucks and full benefits. ?ÿSame old drama and bs. Young folks don??t want to do laborious outdoor work or manage those that do. I don??t really see that changing soon. ?ÿIf we can get fees higher, hopefully we can turn this around a bit??ÿ
As one of the ??oath of poverty solo guys?, I can report good success with raising my rates this year. ?ÿLost a few and some have come back. ?ÿWe all know the last recession held Survey prices back and it??s nice to move forward a bit. ?ÿThe Triangle area of NC is really booming and we get an influx of Survey types moving here for work. ?ÿPretty sure the bigger firms are pretty safely into 6 figures for the main mangers now.
My least fond memories of running crews for others is trying to make work, when there was none. Now I nap or hit balls(been a while). ?ÿ
Speaking occasionally with a few colleagues that have their own larger business or manage someone else??s - the quality of applicants and employees is not great. ?ÿEven with nice salary??s, company trucks and full benefits. ?ÿSame old drama and bs. Young folks don??t want to do laborious outdoor work or manage those that do. I don??t really see that changing soon. ?ÿIf we can get fees higher, hopefully we can turn this around a bit??ÿ
It could depend what you mean by laborious.?ÿ I'm in Idaho and I've done some running around in the trees but for the most part I've been down off the mountains where it's relatively open.?ÿ I get a number of people trying to get me to move to the Seattle area to work.?ÿ The pay looks nice and I'm not afraid of huffing it up and down hills all day, but working in that jungle is simply a pain in the ass.?ÿ I'm guessing NC is fairly wooded as well.?ÿ Are applicants truly lazy or is there possibly something else going on that's deterring them?
Very green here as well and few open sites.?ÿ Statewide, we have mountains on the West and coastal plain on the East. I'm sort of in the middle. I haven't actually surveyed in the mountains, it must be pretty tough. Did I say lazy? ??? ????
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My least fond memories of running crews for others is trying to make work, when there was none.
That's time that could be used to train and cross-train crews rather than make-work. Get them introduced to CAD, data processing, research, boundary calcs, etc...
So I don't think it's so much the fees (and in turn salaries) alone that will attract talent, but clearly defined opportunities, upward mobility, and the ability to at least be heard by, and hopefully influence, the direction of the organization. Quite a few studies of younger workers have found they want these things as much as they want reasonable pay, and when provided, those younger workers stick around.
That's part of the reason why it's difficult for our profession to attract, and more importantly retain, talent. Speaking for myself, as one of the older millennials (I'm 37), I will jet from a company when it becomes clear that I will not be able to improve myself or the organization. Younger workers are more willing to take the risk of jumping ship because sticking around and working hard is no guarantee of moving up. Not to mention most are unable (or unwilling, as in my case, to pay the ridiculous prices) to afford a home, and consequently able to move when a new opportunity comes along.
Engineering/surveying firms have (in general) not paid attention to the changing job market and the more mobile workforce, and consequently have trouble attracting and retaining top talent.
@ralphieboy?ÿ Tough??ÿ I don't really think so.?ÿ I mean the job is mostly just walking around; we're not shoveling concrete or digging ditches by hand, right? ???? The thing I've noticed since getting into this work is that, personally, I like feeling like I get a lot done in a day.?ÿ When I've worked in forested areas and spent all day shooting 4 points it feels like the entire day was a waste even though it might be expected to take that long.?ÿ Anyway, if people don't want to work in any conditions then yeah that would suck.?ÿ Ha
So I don't think it's so much the fees (and in turn salaries) alone that will attract talent, but clearly defined opportunities, upward mobility, and the ability to at least be heard by, and hopefully influence, the direction of the organization. Quite a few studies of younger workers have found they want these things as much as they want reasonable pay, and when provided, those younger workers stick around.
It's interesting that you say this.?ÿ I'm a few years out of school now and when I've asked about or pursued these things at work I've been met with various forms of resistance.?ÿ I've treated it like a sign that it's time to move on as well.?ÿ I think this industry can suffer from bouts of too many chiefs and not enough indians, so at some point you either have to come to terms with being an office tech or crew chief until someone dies or retires, or simply move on.
This is true.?ÿ In the past I had some terrific field guys who wanted to move up.?ÿ But the company I was with then was heavy on fieldwork/construction, not much boundary related work, and generated very little office work.?ÿ I went in the field often since I wasn't very busy myself.?ÿ
The owners said they were interested in bringing guys up and along, but in reality, they didn't want un-billable time on training, and ultimately there was no place for these guys to go, unless something happened to me.
I look back and know that I moved around a bit, with money and lack of opportunity being the biggest reasons.