I did a survey and plat in 2009. The neighbor has a septic field partially on my client's property. My client is suing his neighbor. He is asking me to be available for lawsuit day and preliminary review meetings. Yippee. This is my first one of these. Here is my proposed contract wording:
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CONTRACT: Professional Land Surveying services to support a planned court date on X, 2016 in X County, Indiana for a hearing involving the lawsuit with your neighbor X's septic field location related to the white plastic fence shown on the sketch sent to you X, 2010
Upon our receipt of this fully executed agreement and the retainer fee we will commence with our initial professional land surveying services for the above referenced project. The non-refundable retainer fee for this service is $1,250 due at the time of execution of this agreement.
Once we receive the above we will then commence with the initial review of our files from 2009-2010 for the previous Main Street Consulting Company project 09-0XX. This actual time spent in preparation, reviewing files and data, witness time in court, post court reviews, summary reporting, etc. will be provided on an hourly basis at our current hourly rates in addition to the retainer fee (i.e. the hourly rate clock begins immediately after the retainer fee is paid).
Principal $150.00/hour
Survey Crew $150.00/hour
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My client just left a voice message balking at the non-refundable retainer fee. He says, what if I only spend 3 hours total, then he wants a refund of $1,250 - $450 = $800. Please help me with wording for an appropriate response, basically saying tough shit.
Thanks folks.
Tough **** works fine. What is your response when any other client tries to beat down your fees? You do not have to explain your fees as long as you are upfront about them, you have been and he can accept them as stated or find another Expert Witness, no need to sugar coat it.
Court stuff is per day, because it blows the whole day. One day minimum. No fractional days.
Don't forget the bathing fee, the professional appearance fee, the I-hate-being-indoors fee, and the forced-to-breathe-cologne fee
There is no way I would go to court over a 2009 survey without reviewing the file, and the field conditions. So no, there's no way he's getting out of this with you only spending 3 hours on it.
If you have been asked to be deposed as well as a witness in court I don't think it is proper to be posting details on a public forum. It's certainly your call, but I wouldn't do it.
It is what it is. Use me or don't use me. If I'm working for you, I'm not working for someone else.
Tommy Young, post: 389976, member: 703 wrote: There is no way I would go to court over a 2009 survey without reviewing the file, and the field conditions. So no, there's no way he's getting out of this with you only spending 3 hours on it.
You most definitely don't want someone to show up with a picture of changed field conditions that you didn't know about.
Tonight's South Puget Sound Chapter of the Land Surveyors' Association of Washington's meeting; Mama Stortinis, in Puyallup, at 6:00. Jerry Broadus and Matt Walters will be presenting on Expert Witness Testimony.
I will ask the experts and get back to you...
I agree with Jim about the details. And wish I had the stamina to venture to Puyallup tonight.
I have eliminated the word "retainer" from my proposals in favor of "advance fee deposit". I have a minimum fee for any matters that may tender a court appearance. As others have mentioned, there is a significant amount of time spent in the background prior to any presentation. Don't get too excited, these things rarely get anywhere near a courtroom and you will lose time, sleep and money; everyone does.
half bubble, post: 389974, member: 175 wrote: Court stuff is per day, because it blows the whole day. One day minimum. No fractional days.
Don't forget the bathing fee, the professional appearance fee, the I-hate-being-indoors fee, and the forced-to-breathe-cologne fee
You forgot the "getting grilled by pettifogging attorneys" fee.
Brad, I support your thought process above. T play the devil's advocate, what happens if you get subpoenaed? How do you recover your costs?
Best of luck!
Don't return his call. When (and if) you eventually speak with him; tell him you just figured he had hired somebody else. You might also remind him your memory and professional abilities also decline with the payment amount.
I hate to deal with people that feel agreements and invoices are merely a starting point for negotiations. Set him straight with as few words as possible.
Tough crap seems pretty short...
Dave Karoly, post: 389986, member: 94 wrote: pettifogging
I know what it means, but it still has a sound that makes me think it shouldn't be used in public.
The "retainer" fee is for you to prepare for the case. Not actual work done on the case. It is time reviewing the record, reviewing the numbers, the calculations, refreshing your memory, blocking the day out of your schedule. It is a separate fee above and beyond the charge of doing work on the ground which you tell the client will be in addition to his retainer fee. If he chooses to hire another surveyor, they won't just walk into the courtroom without spending the clients money going to the field, doing calculations, research, etc.
I would make the expert witness time portal to portal. The minute you leave your office until the minute you get back. Otherwise you won't be able to collect for time sitting around the courtroom before they bring you to the stand.
He needs to understand that he's not your only client, and you haven't been sitting around by the phone with his file in-hand since 2009 awaiting his call. Your fee includes time to review the project and prepare for court.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate (or at least to communicate in a common vocabulary)
He probably ran it by his attorney and to an attorney the term retainer fee usually (but not always) means:
[INDENT]What is a Retainer Fee?
A Retainer Fee is an advance payment that a client makes to his or her lawyer before the lawyer begins working on the case. It is similar to a down payment and allows the lawyer to draw funds for various fees as the case proceeds. Usually, the money from a retainer fee is placed in a separate account from the lawyerÛªs personal funds. This ensures that the lawyer will not use the money for their own purposes before services are actually rendered.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]What Are Unearned and Earned Retainer Fees?
"Unearned" retainer fees refer to the sum of money that is placed in the retainer account before the lawyer has earned them. For example, the client may pay the attorney a certain amount before the lawyer actually begins working. The unearned fees do not belong to the lawyer until the lawyer actually begins work on the case and can be refunded if not used. "Earned" retainer fees refer to the portion of money that the lawyer is entitled to after they begin working. These fees may be accessed based on the number of hours the attorney has worked, or the types of tasks the attorney has accomplished. A well written retainer fee agreement will be clear about how unearned and earned monies are defined.
What Is a Retainer Fee Dispute?
While retainer fees can be beneficial for both the client and the attorney, they can sometimes be a source of dispute. One common dispute is where the lawyerÛªs services are no longer needed and there are still leftover funds in the retainer account. If the lawyer refuses to return the clientÛªs money, legal action may be needed to get the lawyer to return the money. Another common dispute is where the lawyer prematurely uses retainer money before earning it. This is usually the result of a poorly-written retainer fee agreement. This type of dispute can often be avoided by clearly indicating in writing when the lawyer can access retainer funds.[/INDENT]
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-is-a-retainer-fee.html
If the other side is deposing you, it is typical that they would cut you a check right on the spot for your time. In terms of hourly rates, the prep time could be at your normal rate, but deposition and testimony should be far more (think at least twice the cost of normal office time) It should be a take it or leave it type of situation, they are choosing to take this to court rather than settle their differences and they should pay. Think about what the attorneys may be billing and the overall cost of the case, your fees are probably a drop in the bucket.
Some people don't like to pay a bill associated with a lost cause after the fact. Get all you can get up front. Just sayin'.
SReeserinPA, post: 389992, member: 6126 wrote: Brad, I support your thought process above. T play the devil's advocate, what happens if you get subpoenaed? How do you recover your costs?
Best of luck!
then you would not be an "expert". You would not express any opinion or explanation, just the same as any other person off the street. "just the facts, nothing but the facts"
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deposition and testimony are charged at full day increments.
if travel days and costs are incurred, that is extra at cost plus 15%
prep and review time is extra, allow 1/2 day or more on the week before scheduled appearance
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retainer should be enough to cover prep and expected appearance time. everything stops when that money is gone, retainer must be replenished.
I don't take checks unless the bank has cleared them Before I do anything. I take cash.
common business practices